quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:

quote:

When we last visited the RSA, we had armed body guards

It's been like that for quite a while. (And now much worse, of course). We used armed body guards while transiting and leaving the Jo'burg parking garage on one of my trips there in 2003, and have done so since from time to time.

You and Larry and Saeed are liars!

Nothing wrong with South Africa!

It is a welcoming country with open arms!

Zaeed, sure we have have crime a useless government who doesn't? except maybe your wonderful country...their must be no problems...but it sure IS NOT as bad as you trying to make it! you will need armed body guards going to most democrat run down town cities in the USA THESE DAYS...we all want it to improve. What African airport doesn't have issues?? Ive being in business since 2003 never once had ONE of my clients being robbed mucked or had ANYTING stolen out of their bags at the airport. IT sure does happen, it happens every where but Stop bashing us all the time its getting old. have a lovely day

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
Zaeed, sure we have have crime a useless government who doesn't? except maybe your wonderful country...their must be no is problems...but it sure IS NOT as bad as you trying to make it! you will need armed body guards going to most democrat run down town cities in the USA THESE DAYS...we all want it to improve. What African airport doesn't have issues?? Ive being in business since 2003 never once had ONE of my clients being robbed mucked or had ANYTING stolen out of their bags at the airport. IT sure does happen, it happens every where but Stop bashing us all the time its getting old. have a lovely day

Phillip,

My wife and I often vacate in your wonderful country and spent a few weeks around the cape. I never felt unsafe however the airport staff were apathetic and rude but I have come across worse.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
Zaeed, sure we have have crime a useless government who doesn't? except maybe your wonderful country...their must be no is problems...but it sure IS NOT as bad as you trying to make it! you will need armed body guards going to most democrat run down town cities in the USA THESE DAYS...we all want it to improve. What African airport doesn't have issues?? Ive being in business since 2003 never once had ONE of my clients being robbed mucked or had ANYTING stolen out of their bags at the airport. IT sure does happen, it happens every where but Stop bashing us all the time its getting old. have a lovely day

Phillip,

My wife and I often vacate in your wonderful country and spent a few weeks around the cape. I never felt unsafe however the airport staff were apathetic and rude but I have come across worse.

Fairgame hope you guys are well? We all hope for everything in Africa to improve but not in our live time I am afraid... but then again by the looks of what is going on in the world now I would much rather deal with Africa than any European country at the moment... my take on airport staff... I push my own trolley carry my own stuff arrange all transport ahead of the time no matter where I travel in Africa...then their is no hassle.

I have had items stolen from my own bags.

Last time I went there I had a large camera bag, which I put in the hold.

Emirates made a note of it.

It was hand delivered to me at the luggage collection.

Never had that happen before.

Travelled to Zimbabwe many times, through both Vic Falls and Bulawayo.

Travelled to Da Essalam many time.

Never had a single item stolen.

Neither have any of my friends.

South Africa, on the other hand, I have several friends who have had encounters with crimes.

To be brutally fair about this, I will no longer travel to such cities as Chicago, New York, Philadelphia, or Washington DC, in the safe and sane US of A. And here in beautiful and semi-tropical downtown Saint Thomas, PA, I feel as safe as if I were in the arms of the Lord. I felt just as safe when I was in a safari camp in South Africa, but will admit it has been about ten years since I was last there. I'm sure things have changed a bit since then, but they have also changed since then here.

quote:

I have had items stolen from my own bags.

I have had two brand new cameras stolen-one a JVC digital video camera and the other a brand new Sony digital camera. They were in a carry on bag placed in the hold at the insistence of the SAA cabin crew and against my verbal wishes. I was assured that everything would be safe. Much to my dismay that was not the case as they simply split the zipper, took the cameras and re-zipped it up so that it looked like it had not been opened. My wife has had items stolen. A few years back on an SAA flight nearly everyone on the flight had their bags rummaged through and items taken. No one needs to lecture me about Jo-burg and the theft that goes on daily there. We switched a few years back to hard side luggage in an attempt to prevent theft. That made a significant difference. This is a separate factual statement from the armed guards post of mine. You can't sweep the theft and violence of Jo-burg under the table, folks. Moreover, I was staying at Africa Sky a few years back(2017) when a group of black violent thugs breached the fence and tried to break into the room next to mine. The man(another hunter) was yelling for help. They were finally scared off by one of the guards. One of the other guards had been robbed, his shoes taken and assaulted. He was terrified. So was the hunter next to me. We talked about it at breakfast, as I had enjoyed dinner with him the night that it happened. I talked personally with Diedre about the situation. My advice: be prepared to deal with these types of things and be ever vigilant if your traveling to or transiting through Jo-burg. Can it happen anywhere? Yes it can. But Jo-burg seems to attract a special breed and nothing seems to be done to stop it in its tracks. A few years ago, when they held the World Cup and modernized the airport, things seemed to change for a year or two. Then it went back to the same old, same old.

The government is complicit in the crimes in a Johannesburg.

They put an end to it during the World Cup!

How come?

There is no way in hell I am going on holiday to a country where I might require armed guards.

Armed guards? LOL

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
When we last visited the RSA, we had armed body guards take us to Sun City. Interestingly , the armed body guards had another armed person watch the vehicle while we were being retrieved .

At Sun City, the workers seemed to be keenly aware of the issues in Johannesburg. They pretty much were pleading with us to let our friends and acquaintances know that Sun City was not like Johannesburg. They were totally aware of the negative impact the violence had on tourism.

Little doubt the RSA was once a GREAT country . Since about 1994, there has been massive regression . It is simply not the same country .

No.

Armed guards are NOT required in crime ridden South Africa!

Bloody foreigners are just lying.

Believe me, non of us like what is going on in South Africa.

Rampant crime is not welcome by anyone.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
When we last visited the RSA, we had armed body guards take us to Sun City. Interestingly , the armed body guards had another armed person watch the vehicle while we were being retrieved .

At Sun City, the workers seemed to be keenly aware of the issues in Johannesburg. They pretty much were pleading with us to let our friends and acquaintances know that Sun City was not like Johannesburg. They were totally aware of the negative impact the violence had on tourism.

Little doubt the RSA was once a GREAT country . Since about 1994, there has been massive regression . It is simply not the same country .

No.

Armed guards are NOT required in crime ridden South Africa!

Bloody foreigners are just lying.

Believe me, non of us like what is going on in South Africa.

Rampant crime is not welcome by anyone.

Some here seem to forget the car jacking, murders and kidnapping 400 meters from the entrance to Tambo.

quote:

Armed guards? LOL

Yes. Armed guards. Don't hide your head in the sand, my friend. Turning a blind eye to this is not helping your safari industry, nor is your light hearted reaction helping your own business. Concern would be the better of valor. And, Larry is spot on. We too, love South Africa, but the truth is what it is.

I travel to south africa, through JNB a lot, the last few years three times a year. Never once had a problem......must be lucky.

Much more creeped out in Chicago.....

The truth is more then likely in the middle. To many Sa outfitter come on places like this and say there is no problems to save there wallet. Same guys over and over no matter what is said dont worry about it all is good.

Then we have all the SA haters who say it is the worse. They go the other way and make it like you cant go any place and not get robbed or killed or your stuff stolen.

I have traveled there enough never had problems. Seen stuff that was not good but never scared for my life or even thought of not going back.

The fact is there is more crime all over then I remember seeing in my 52 years of living. I think you go any place things can happen. Dont make yourself an easy target stay away from the bad areas like any place omm earth and all will be ok.

quote:

Originally posted by bcap:
The truth is more then likely in the middle. To many Sa outfitter come on places like this and say there is no problems to save there wallet. Same guys over and over no matter what is said dont worry about it all is good.

Then we have all the SA haters who say it is the worse. They go the other way and make it like you cant go any place and not get robbed or killed or your stuff stolen.

I have traveled there enough never had problems. Seen stuff that was not good but never scared for my life or even thought of not going back.

The fact is there is more crime all over then I remember seeing in my 52 years of living. I think you go any place things can happen. Dont make yourself an easy target stay away from the bad areas like any place omm earth and all will be ok.

Well.stated.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:

quote:

Armed guards? LOL

Yes. Armed guards. Don't hide your head in the sand, my friend. Turning a blind eye to this is not helping your safari industry, nor is your light hearted reaction helping your own business. Concern would be the better of valor. And, Larry is spot on. We too, love South Africa, but the truth is what it is.

Not for once "hiding my head in the sand" my friend, but the way its being portrayed is that its the norm and not the exception. Its NOT the norm. Hang around a barber shop long enough and you'll get a hair cut.
Is it fair for me to say that I should wear a Kevlar vest every time we drive past a school in the USA?

JHB is a shit hole. I hate the place. Dont ever compare it to where I live.

Do you know that there are 4 official tribes in South Africa, and these 4 then have more sub tribes under that. They are not the same. Even we know that there are certain groups, all in the North of the country closer to Zimbabwe that are a lot more aggressive than the others and these are the ones spilling over into JHB
So, is it fair to say, that you are at the same risk no matter where you are in the country, because only "South Africa"
was mentioned. How does this bode to someone busy doing the research to possibly come to South Africa, and the Eastern Cape for a matter, and then reading statements that you need body guards wherever you go. So, yes, I will jump in and give facts, because what you are stating IS an exception, although I have never heard of it, and certainly NOT the rule.

Practically every visitor HAS to go through Johannesburg.

An English friend bought a house in Cape Town.

He went to retire there.

Mugged in the streets, stole his money and phone.

His wife was attacked as she arrived home.

He lived in the UAE for over 30 years.

Brought his family up there.

Never once have any of them experienced any crime.

He said he never even HEARD of anyone being the victim of a crime.

While in South Africa, he said talk of crimes against individuals are a daily talking point.

Someone above called those of us pointing this out as HATERS!

What an utterly stupid thing to say!

I have been to South Africa several times.

Wonderful country.

Wonderful people, those I had contact with.

But facts are facts.

And I would definitely given second thoughts to anytime I have an inclination to go there.

You have to go though Johannesburg Airport yes, not Johannesburg.

What does Cape Town have to do with it? Every city in the world has crime.

Next time I offer a safari in one of the cities, I will make sure to inform people of the risks.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Practically every visitor HAS to go through Johannesburg.

An English friend bought a house in Cape Town.

He went to retire there.

Mugged in the streets, stole his money and phone.

His wife was attacked as she arrived home.

He lived in the UAE for over 30 years.

Brought his family up there.

Never once have any of them experienced any crime.

He said he never even HEARD of anyone being the victim of a crime.

While in South Africa, he said talk of crimes against individuals are a daily talking point.

Someone above called those of us pointing this out as HATERS!

What an utterly stupid thing to say!

I have been to South Africa several times.

Wonderful country.

Wonderful people, those I had contact with.

But facts are facts.

And I would definitely given second thoughts to anytime I have an inclination to go there.

Give someone second thoughts to come here....after 1000s of good successful hunts with zero incidents...by so many outfitters across the country that does their absolute best to assure safe good hunts for the clients?? Wow Saeed thanks for that!!

Let me put this in perspective for you.

I travel to several countries every year.

I have friends and relatives who do the same.

I have not had a single incident of crime anywhere I travelled.

Neither have any of those I know.

South Africa stands out as the only country we have been too where several individuals I know had had something criminal done to them.

Sugar it as much as you like, the facts speak for themselves!

I wish it was not true.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Saeed:
Let me put this in perspective for you.

I travel to several countries every year.

I have friends and relatives who do the same.

I have not had a single incident of crime anywhere I travelled.

Neither have any of those I know.

South Africa stands out as the only country we have been too where several individuals I know had had something criminal done to them.

Sugar it as much as you like, the facts speak for themselves!

I wish it was not true.[/QU


No SUGAR needed...you are a very lucky traveller then. I had my cruiser broken into while I was driving in HARARE Zimbabwe, had my camera stolen after my carry on bag had to be recheck in Cameroon...And just this year had all my stuff stolen out of my rental car in Namibia. And at the last Houston Safari club show in 2019 before covid had my booth TV STOLEN out of my truck in front of the hotel we stayed at. These things happen will I discourage anybody not to go to any of these places...No I will not. I will tell them what happened and they can then decide for them self.

We deal with lots of problems in this country. How ever one of the biggest issues we deal with is illegal immigration since most of the countries north of us are in worst shape than us. Most of the organised crime are run but Nigerians, the illegals out of Zimbabwe and Mozambique SURE IS NOT HELPING they are flogging in by their 1000s everyday

Anyway Saeed Happy new year to you and your family. And for the clients that hunt with us year after year and support us THANK YOU!! Merry xmas to all.

I wish you all A Merry Christmas and a Very Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year.

Hopefully 2022 will some change from 2021.

quote:

We deal with lots of problems in this country. How ever one of the biggest issues we deal with is illegal immigration since most of the countries north of us are in worst shape than us. Most of the organised crime are run but Nigerians, the illegals out of Zimbabwe and Mozambique SURE IS NOT HELPING they are flogging in by their 1000s everyday

Your main problem is domestic violent crime instigated by you know who, with little or nothing being done to bring the volatile instigators to justice .... of which there is none to speak of.

Thefts as you have described can be referred to as petty crime brought about by either desperate hungry people and/or drug users in search of easy money for a fix and of course the common thief who does it for a living - these crimes which are by and large non violent are an international issue except for those places where they cut of the offending hand.

Violent crime in RSA has escalated in recent times with no signs of relenting and God help you all if that lunatic behind the turmoil gets into the driving seat.

I did say SA haters because so many only talk down on it. I dont mean everyone who has a harsh comment on problems in SA but those who have only bashed it for some reason or another. You know the ones who have to say SA is not hunting just shooting and so on and so on.

Crime is everywhere and only getting worse it seems all over the world. I feel as safe in SA when hunting as any other place.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

We deal with lots of problems in this country. How ever one of the biggest issues we deal with is illegal immigration since most of the countries north of us are in worst shape than us. Most of the organised crime are run but Nigerians, the illegals out of Zimbabwe and Mozambique SURE IS NOT HELPING they are flogging in by their 1000s everyday

NO sir our

Your main problem is domestic violent crime instigated by you know who, with little or nothing being done to bring the volatile instigators to justice .... of which there is none to speak of.

Thefts as you have described can be referred to as petty crime brought about by either desperate hungry people and/or drug users in search of easy money for a fix and of course the common thief who does it for a living - these crimes which are by and large non violent are an international issue except for those places where they cut of the offending hand.

Violent crime in RSA has escalated in recent times with no signs of relenting and God help you all if that lunatic behind the turmoil gets into the driving seat.

NO sir our main problem is the millions and millions of illegals in the country, as it is we can hardly support the legal citizens of this country.

I am astounded by the negativity (and sometimes even hostility) towards South Africa by some. Why is the Islamic insurgency in Northern Mozambique never a topic of discussion? Is Mozambique a safer place to travel to than South Africa? I mean it is a hunting destination as well… Or is Zimbabwe safer – a country where tens of thousands of ordinary citizens were murdered by the former regime. A country where you don’t know if there will be bread in the supermarket or fuel at the gas station during your next visit? A country where you must be ready to hand out $$$ around every corner – in an effort of making sure you get your next destination?

Comments are made about RSA being unsafe to travel to due to civil unrest by folks from a country – not free from civil unrest at all. Check this article out:

Yet, South Africa, is subject to civil unrest ONCE (and only briefly) in July 2021 and now it is a dangerous place to travel to? Forget about the fact that those who were party to the civil unrest had a completely different agenda and that it was quelled within a week… No, it is more newsworthy to talk about how “dangerous” South Africa has become since 1994…

Do yourselves a favor – google: “unrest in South Africa” and then “unrest in USA” and see what you come up with. Quite frankly, if I were an uninformed traveler and had to choose between the two – based on what Google tells me I’d opt for South Africa. Yet here we are with some prospective safari hunters looking for a first safari destination and if they were to read some of the posts on Accurate Reloading it would put them off immediately. Free speech is one thing – misinformation another.

The original post (dating back almost three years ago) related to the taking over of land and violence in South Africa. Was land taken over? NO and has there been violence between then and now? YES – ONCE AND VERY BRIEFLY IN JULY 2021… Meanwhile, the taking of land without compensation issue was resolved in Parliament just the other day. It was outvoted – which is good news (great news actually). But instead of celebrating it, some of us now want to analyze this and look for other reasons to put South Africa down. I’m not saying everything is perfect over here – but neither is it anywhere else.

Yes, pilferage at JNB was a problem at one point. I personally was victim of it TWICE – once in 2007 after a flight back from Mozambique and another time in 2009 after a flight back from the USA. But I have travelled extensively domestically and internationally every year since then and not one single item was taken from my luggage. Why? Maybe because I have learned not to put my expensive camera or shoes in my checked-in luggage or maybe because the pilfering problem at OR Tambo has been sorted out – who knows? Is there anyone over here who recently had their luggage pilfered? Please speak up!

“Armed guards”? I carry a handgun with me everywhere I go, so does my wife and so do many of my friends. This is a personal choice; I like guns, I’ve been trained in using guns and I like being prepared. Have I ever needed to use a gun against another person? Yes, when I was a cop thirty years ago plus – but not ONCE since I’ve been a civilian. The way some are coming across is that it is essential to carry a gun in South Africa – just to stay alive and safeguard your belongings. Fact is, as many of my friends and acquaintances who do carry, as many are there who do not. It is not a requirement to be armed in South Africa – it is a choice…

Does me carrying a gun imply my clients have an “armed guard” with them whenever they travel with me? Does having someone stay with a vehicle that my clients’ firearms are in while we visit an attraction mean South Africa is unsafe? Or might it be a legal requirement not to leave firearms unattended? Or might it simply be the responsible thing to do? Would you leave your guns unattended in Bulawayo or Vic Falls or Arusha? I would not and neither would I in SLC or anywhere else. I love my guns too much as I’m sure all of you do…

Coincidentally, many of my US clients including doctors, lawyers and firemen also carry their handguns 24/7. Only difference is – some of them are not allowed to enter a bar while they’re carrying – while in SA I can pretty much carry everywhere. I like it that way and hope it will stay that way… And to be honest, it seems to be safer to sit in a bar amongst armed citizens in South Africa than what it is to be in some schools in America! At least over here we don’t just start shooting at one another… We talk first and usually it does not result in anyone shooting at anyone…

Many years ago, I was in San Francisco where I was harassed by beggars continuously as I walked around the wharf. In fact, I had a beggar throw the untouched Burger I had just bought and offered to him back in my face when he told me he was hungry… Do I want to go to San Francisco again? Well, no, but not because of harassment by beggars – rather because I have now seen the Golden Gate and Alcatraz and I have no wish to see men walking around in dresses again. Does it mean I never want to go there or through there again? Also “no”, because if it so happens that I want to show beautiful Monterey to someone – that would likely be the most convenient way to get there and then I’ll deal with the beggars and men in dresses, or I will just ignore them or I will stay away from the wharf...
Yes, we have our troubles here in South Africa – as do many have in many other countries around the world. But to single out one country and keep on picking on it repeatedly can hardly be fair.

Saeed, it is sad that your English friend was mugged in Cape Town and it’s even sadder that his wife got attacked when she got home. And of course, they would likely not be subjected to muggings and home invasions while they lived in the UAE. There seems to be law and order where you live – hence the fact that so many criminals find refuge there (does the name “Gupta” sound familiar?) I am sure that the Gupta’s feel safe in your crime free environment – spending the money they had stolen from our country…

So good for you and your friend who have not experienced muggings or home invasions. Then again, if I could get my hand chopped off for stealing, I would think twice about stealing… Unfortunately, in the so-called “civilized” world, chopping off hands are frowned upon… I sometimes wish it were not…
An American client of mine had to pull his gun when he was accosted while he was waiting for his wife outside a hospital in Denver Colorado… No this is not the norm and surely this was an isolated incident – but it is an example... Since being a civilian, I have NEVER had to pull my gun in South Africa – EVER – except for shooting the odd snake that found its way inside my home or garden!

Thousands and thousands of South Africans walk the streets of Cape Town, Johannesburg, and many of our cities without being mugged. And thousands and thousands of people walk the streets of Denver and other American cities without getting mugged or accosted… But then just someday there is some person who does not follow the “rules” … This is not a South African problem; it is a problem worldwide…

I fail to comprehend why South Africa is being singled out when there are so many other countries that also battle with crime and corruption. Quite frankly, some countries / cities just deal with it better than others but those are few and far between.

Chris,
Well said and thank you.
Have a great holiday.

Saeed, it is sad that your English friend was mugged in Cape Town and it’s even sadder that his wife got attacked when she got home. And of course, they would likely not be subjected to muggings and home invasions while they lived in the UAE. There seems to be law and order where you live – hence the fact that so many criminals find refuge there (does the name “Gupta” sound familiar?) I am sure that the Gupta’s feel safe in your crime free environment – spending the money they had stolen from our country…

Ask your country to issue an arrest warrant through Interpol.

I guarantee you he will be on the next flight to you.

The UAE has arrested numerous global criminals.

From Europe, Australia and Nigeria.

We do not accommodate criminals.

Because we do not like crimes.

That is why we people here are living peacefully.

A friend was attacked at home, and shot in the leg too.

The culprits were never caught.

Like was mentioned earlier, why did crime at Johannesburg airport stop during the World Cup?

Why did it start immediately after?

The South African government has no wish to stop crimes.

This year alone, two families who go there fir their holidays were robbed.

They were living in what supposed to be a secure residential area.

Both have said enough is enough.

No more family holidays in South Africa!

quote:

How does this bode to someone busy doing the research to possibly come to South Africa, and the Eastern Cape for a matter, and then reading statements that you need body guards wherever you go. So, yes, I will jump in and give facts, because what you are stating IS an exception, although I have never heard of it, and certainly NOT the rule.

NEVER ONCE did I ever say or EVER INFER that you needed armed guards WHEREVER YOU TRAVELED THROUGHOUT SOUTH AFRICA. Re-read my initial statement. You're twisting my statements to suit your emotional reaction, and your LOL in your initial statement was totally uncalled for. For your information, I have traveled to and through and hunted in EACH AND EVERY PROVINCE in South Africa on MANY occasions safely, but Jo/burg, its airport and environs are a different situation. I had one South African PH who had shot and killed carjackers in Jo-burg. When we started into Jo-burg on return to the airport he always placed his 45 auto between his legs as he drove into the city. You have a problem with Jo-burg and its airport and you all need to work on making it safe. I've traveled through that airport on 32 separate occasions, but maybe that's not enough for you or anyone else living in South Africa to have knowledge of what's going on there. Have I been robbed or had items stolen each and every time? No. But I have had enough stuff taken from that airport to know that there is indeed a problem there. And, yes you are right on one point: Jo-burg is indeed a shithole. And, having stayed in Jo-burg many, many times at Africa Sky, City Lodge, Intercontinental, and Afton House I know too well of the security measures that they all take to keep their clients safe. Sometimes it hasn't worked. I have personally been a witness to that. And, I don't know of any PH or concession owner that I have dealt with throughout South Africa that hasn't taken security measures themselves to protect their homes and properties through electric fences, alarms, walls, gates, etc. Those security measures weren't taken to protect them, their families and clients from wild four legged animals, but the two legged type.

We don't need to argue based on anecdotes. Just look at the statistics. RSA is the murder capital of the world. And only in RSA do thieves drill holes in you with an electric drill, put babies in ovens, force you to eat your own penis, and take a hot clothes iron to your wife. Just for fun.

Why is this? Partially because South Africa has an astronomical unemployment rate. 2/3 of young men are unemployed. But it also has a history of bloody racial violence, going back to Blood River and Weenen. And by racial violence I include Mfecane, tribal wars. The British learned the hard way that RSA is not the Garden of Eden. They fought the Zulus, they fought the Boers (twice), and their descendants fought the ANC. The place is soaked in blood. Necklacing was invented in RSA, as was the anti-hijacking flame thrower. With more to come, I fear, as politicians insist that whites stole their land, that whites are "settlers" (I think the last settlers arrived in 1820, that was 200 years ago now), that whites are oppressors and slave owners, that whites have exploited the land and its indigenous peoples, and so on. Violence is a tradition in South Africa. It was controlled and curtailed under the Nationalist Party government, but the ANC has let that cat out of the bag again.

The point I’d like to make (and it’s my last one) is that Saeed and some others closely resemble negative South African bots. For a lack of a better word. Someone posts something remotely positive about SA on this forum and BOOM … it’s like an automated reply …he has a friend, SA is this, Sa is that. I love my country. I live exactly where I want to be so I’m partial. But for sanity sake where is the perspective.

My daughter finished school last week. 65 of her school girl contemporaries travelled by bus to Port Elizabeth and then flew on their own to JOBurg and some through Johannesburg to their homes in Europe, Africa etc. They were schoolgirls, they were not armed and they didn’t have to be. Thousands and thousands of people use South Africa, it’s public spaces, it’s airports daily.

Where I live in SA I don’t have any security around my house or lodge whatsoever. Never been robbed at home, never been a victim of violent crime. My laptop was stolen out of my vehicle once. That’s the god honest truth. I am aware of crime though. That’s an SA reality. We read and deal with it everyday but this nonsense that every time someone posts something on this forum about SA and there’s a slew of messages….it’s pathetic. I think it points to a personal problem in someone’s life, likes an argument, a bit of confrontation to get the attention it craves.

I see the “ostrich head in the sand syndrome” is very active in South Africa.

You are happy of what is going on in your country, fine.

It is yours.

Don’t expect me to accept what I consider unacceptable and run there to be a victim.

I have a friend sitting right here, reading all this.

He is laughing and saying “it didn’t happen like that” according to them.

Quite an interesting read:

https://www.gov.za/speeches/mi...022-20-aug-2021-0000

Almost any former colonial part of Africa, well, that’s just about all of it, can explode.

How does Joburg compare to Detroit, Chicago, NYC, Portland? Yes, there were riots and looting months ago in RSA, but it was quelled within days. However, elected leaders in the USA cities mentioned above almost encouraged lawlessness.

There’s the ISIS resurgence in parts of Africa, the Middle East, and other parts of the world.

Outfitters on the ground in RSA don’t want to risk the lives of their hunters, not themselves. CAR outfitters have said “nope, too hot, let’s rebook.” I don’t see the hate for the RSA. It’s along the same lines as many of the largest cities in the world.

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:
We don't need to argue based on anecdotes. Just look at the statistics. RSA is the murder capital of the world. And only in RSA do thieves drill holes in you with an electric drill, put babies in ovens, force you to eat your own penis, and take a hot clothes iron to your wife. Just for fun.

Why is this? Partially because South Africa has an astronomical unemployment rate. 2/3 of young men are unemployed. But it also has a history of bloody racial violence, going back to Blood River and Weenen. And by racial violence I include Mfecane, tribal wars. The British learned the hard way that RSA is not the Garden of Eden. They fought the Zulus, they fought the Boers (twice), and their descendants fought the ANC. The place is soaked in blood. Necklacing was invented in RSA, as was the anti-hijacking flame thrower. With more to come, I fear, as politicians insist that whites stole their land, that whites are "settlers" (I think the last settlers arrived in 1820, that was 200 years ago now), that whites are oppressors and slave owners, that whites have exploited the land and its indigenous peoples, and so on. Violence is a tradition in South Africa. It was controlled and curtailed under the Nationalist Party government, but the ANC has let that cat out of the bag again.

"RSA is the murder capital of the world"?

Russ, if you would be so kind to share your statistical resource(s) it would be beneficial to everyone over here. How did you come to the conclusion that SA is the "murder capital of the world"?

Maybe a ranking of "10" is a "win" to you - I don't know? Here in "corrupt and dangerous" South Africa you need to get to first place to win... The same rule apply to most other countries I know of... Or does it work differently in Texas?

"Only in South Africa do thieves..."???

Really? Well I guess the worst thing that can happen to someone traveling to Mexico, Venezuela or Brazil is drinking the tap water eh?

Or how about St Louis Missouri in the good old US of A - which is incidentally ( according to my information) ranking higher than Cape Town - South Africa? The same Cape Town - where the numbers are rather distorted as the vast majority of homicides reported "in" this city actually originated in the townships next to Cape Town and is gang-or-drug-related. Areas that are not typically visited by tourists and can be avoided...

History of "racial violence"? Interesting that you should mention this. If we were to look at "statistics" found online - please look at my earlier post and link and do a Google search on "civil unrest in South Africa" vs "civil unrest in the USA"...

Compare South Africa, where 80% of the population is "black" to the USA where 80% of the population is "white"... YOU - in the USA have had more incidents of racial violence in the past two years than what we have had - significantly more in fact. So if we were to use these statistics - we, with our 80% black population have actually done a better job of curtailing racial violence than what the USA has done - not?

Nope, we do not have our heads in the sand. Yes, we realize we have problems and yes, we all wish we could make things better (and we are trying to do so all the time - in a democratic way). We are acutely aware of the challenges we are facing in this beautiful country of ours. A country we are proud of and a country that has so much to offer to not only ourselves but also the many international visitors we welcome every year.

But like Victor said, this whole "bashing South Africa" even when there is some positive news forthcoming from our country is really getting old and is mostly unwarranted. Oddly enough, it is often the same individuals who come forward with negative posts. I just don't understand the motives...

The South African operators do their utmost to whisk you into the safety of their hunting areas and they are very adept at doing this.

Accepted that Tambo is a mess but these are some of the challenges faced when hunting. Maybe the so-called rest houses are not the safest but one incident should not condemn them.

I personally would feel very comfortable with any of the operators that post here and can understand their frustrations regarding the negative comments regarding security and safety.

As stated I have spent many a night in fine hotels in Joberge and visited this country often without incident. It is a nation divided by politics and here things can get nasty but avoidable.

Countries I would be wary of would be the CAR, Congo, Ethiopia, West Africa, and some regions of Mozambique, and the adjacent Tanzanian border.

Really if one can accept getting through Tambo airport then there is some very fine hunting and hospitality out there.

This has been my experience.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
The South African operators do their utmost to whisk you into the safety of their hunting areas and they are very adept at doing this.

Accepted that Tambo is a mess but these are some of the challenges faced when hunting. Maybe the so-called rest houses are not the safest but one incident should not condemn them.

I personally would feel very comfortable with any of the operators that post here and can understand their frustrations regarding the negative comments regarding security and safety.

As stated I have spent many a night in fine hotels in Joberge and visited this country often without incident. It is a nation divided by politics and here things can get nasty but avoidable.

Countries I would be wary of would be the CAR, Congo, Ethiopia, West Africa, and some regions of Mozambique, and the adjacent Tanzanian border.

Really if one can accept getting through Tambo airport then there is some very fine hunting and hospitality out there.

This has been my experience.

I would agree, as that's been my experience as well.

CAR was a bit frightening at times. We got stopped at night by a couple regular military looking fella's. They asked us all for our Passports.

There was a French fella and his wife with us and he began shouting at them and telling them to piss-off. He seemed to have it under control. They just were shaking us down for money, which they did not get.

For me, this whole process of going has gotten so onerous, complex and regulation driven, I've lost interest.

The gun permits, (both sides) the airlines attitude about guns, the Covid non-sense, then the stupid cost of getting stuff home and then the taxidermy. I've had it with surly gate agents attitude with checking guns, TSA agents being shitweasels about the whole thing.

The ammo counting drills in Dar, the constant shakedown in Joberg,

Look back at 2004 when we did Bangweulu. Laura handled gun permits...we got picked up at Lusaka and we went hunting. When the hunt was concluded, I got dropped off at the terminal, Laura said some nice things to the gun folks, and I got on an airplane.

Once home, whether it was LAX or Dallas or Miami, the US Customs guys would casually check the guns against your 4475 and send you on your way.

Now, you're treated like a criminal.

There are far too many easier, less expensive and less stressful outdoor pursuits to deal with that level of asshatery.

They (being everyone in that process) have killed the golden goose.

quote:

Look back at 2004 when we did Bangweulu. Laura handled gun permits...we got picked up at Lusaka and we went hunting. When the hunt was concluded, I got dropped off at the terminal, Laura said some nice things to the gun folks, and I got on an airplane.

Zambia is easy if you can bear everything in between. We have relaxed duties on ammunition and the whole process is smoother than you can remember.

One of my hunters even shipped over his guns which I now own just so he could skip that process!

We have been hunting Tanzania for so many years.

Never had any problems.

In country or at the airport.

In fact, this year airport personnel were extremely helpful.

And we never had anything stolen either.

Comparing Johannesburg airport to Dar is a hundred times worse than comparing chalk and cheese!

RSA voted top person of the year

FIRST RUNNER-UP: DEPUTY CHIEF JUSTICE RAYMOND ZONDO

As then president Jacob Zuma so ironically proclaimed in his January 2018 statement on the establishment of the Judicial Commission of Inquiry into Allegations of State Capture, “There should be no area of corruption and culprit that should be spared the extent of this commission of inquiry.”

Over the past three years, Deputy Chief Justice Raymond Zondo seems to have taken Zuma’s words to heart in his role as chair of the commission. South Africans watched as witness after witness took the stand, their testimony slowly chipping away at the mystery surrounding State Capture. Mounting evidence saw the once “almost untouchable” Malusi Gigaba pushed to explain himself before the public, while Ace Magashule’s political power base was gradually eroded by allegations of corruption, as seen in Stephen Grootes’s analysis of the commission for Daily Maverick in August.

Arguably the most significant outcome of the Zondo Commission thus far has been the arrest of Zuma himself. In a Constitutional Court judgment handed down on 29 June, Zuma was sentenced to 15 months’ imprisonment for refusing to obey the court’s order to testify before the commission. The commission has given those involved in corruption something to fear – consequences. Whether reputation, political clout or even freedom, there is now something for leaders to lose when faced with evidence of their wrongdoing. It is no wonder, then, that Daily Maverick readers voted Zondo and the staff of the commission as second runner-up. Their critical work has laid the foundation for a more accountable and transparent state in South Africa. But it does not end with Zondo. A lot more work needs to be done. – By Tamsin Metelerkamp/DM168

Got to admit they are trying.