quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by Uncle Grinch:
I’m 70 years old and I say this to put a time frame on this.... when I was a teenager I remember reading a story in either Outdoor Life or Sports Afield about a hunter who defended himself against a black bear attack with a 9mm Browning pistol.

There was quite a few follow-up letters about this hunters choice of weapons. I’m sure there has been other occasions where “inadequate” firearms have been used to save a life.

Since it worked how can it be called inadequate?

quote:

Originally posted by Sevastopol:

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by Uncle Grinch:
I’m 70 years old and I say this to put a time frame on this.... when I was a teenager I remember reading a story in either Outdoor Life or Sports Afield about a hunter who defended himself against a black bear attack with a 9mm Browning pistol.

There was quite a few follow-up letters about this hunters choice of weapons. I’m sure there has been other occasions where “inadequate” firearms have been used to save a life.

Since it worked how can it be called inadequate?

"inadequate".

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:

quote:

Originally posted by Sevastopol:

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by Uncle Grinch:
I’m 70 years old and I say this to put a time frame on this.... when I was a teenager I remember reading a story in either Outdoor Life or Sports Afield about a hunter who defended himself against a black bear attack with a 9mm Browning pistol.

There was quite a few follow-up letters about this hunters choice of weapons. I’m sure there has been other occasions where “inadequate” firearms have been used to save a life.

Since it worked how can it be called inadequate?

"inadequate".

With most loads and bullet styles, the 9mm is definitely inadequate for stopping a charging bruin. Anyone can get lucky but the odds are against it ending well ...

The BB hardcast 9mm ammo Phil used in his S&W is likely the best penetrator if you're going to roll the 'survival dice' with the mini-meter against a hostile Grizz or Brownie.

Meanwhile Next-Generation Alaskans, like Chuke, are arming themselves with a 10mm Glock (G20 or G40) whenever they venture into the bear-filled boonies.

In the vid below, Chuke does 'comparative' penetration testing between 9mm and 10mm ammo. Interestingly, in his opening commentary, Chuke even remarks on the "mysterious" case of Phil's bear shooting.

Apparently, it proved to be a real 'head-scratcher' for DLP investigators ... Oh well.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?li...xO8i9R1s&mode=NORMAL

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:

quote:

Originally posted by Sevastopol:

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by Uncle Grinch:
I’m 70 years old and I say this to put a time frame on this.... when I was a teenager I remember reading a story in either Outdoor Life or Sports Afield about a hunter who defended himself against a black bear attack with a 9mm Browning pistol.

There was quite a few follow-up letters about this hunters choice of weapons. I’m sure there has been other occasions where “inadequate” firearms have been used to save a life.

Since it worked how can it be called inadequate?

"inadequate".

With most loads and bullet styles, the 9mm is definitely inadequate for stopping a charging bruin. Anyone can get lucky but the odds are against it ending well ...

The BB hardcast 9mm ammo Phil used in his S&W is likely the best penetrator if you're going to roll the 'survival dice' with the mini-meter against a hostile Grizz or Brownie.

Meanwhile Next-Generation Alaskans, like Chuke, are arming themselves with a 10mm Glock (G20 or G40) whenever they venture into the bear-filled boonies.

In the vid below, Chuke does 'comparative' penetration testing between 9mm and 10mm ammo. Interestingly, in his opening commentary, Chuke even remarks on the "mysterious" case of Phil's bear shooting.

Apparently, it proved to be a real 'head-scratcher' for DLP investigators ... Oh well.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?li...xO8i9R1s&mode=NORMAL

A YouTube star didn’t understand how a bear died from being shot? Do I translate that right?

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:

quote:

Originally posted by Sevastopol:

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by Uncle Grinch:
I’m 70 years old and I say this to put a time frame on this.... when I was a teenager I remember reading a story in either Outdoor Life or Sports Afield about a hunter who defended himself against a black bear attack with a 9mm Browning pistol.

There was quite a few follow-up letters about this hunters choice of weapons. I’m sure there has been other occasions where “inadequate” firearms have been used to save a life.

Since it worked how can it be called inadequate?

"inadequate".

With most loads and bullet styles, the 9mm is definitely inadequate for stopping a charging bruin. Anyone can get lucky but the odds are against it ending well ...

The BB hardcast 9mm ammo Phil used in his S&W is likely the best penetrator if you're going to roll the 'survival dice' with the mini-meter against a hostile Grizz or Brownie.

Meanwhile Next-Generation Alaskans, like Chuke, are arming themselves with a 10mm Glock (G20 or G40) whenever they venture into the bear-filled boonies.

In the vid below, Chuke does 'comparative' penetration testing between 9mm and 10mm ammo. Interestingly, in his opening commentary, Chuke even remarks on the "mysterious" case of Phil's bear shooting.

Apparently, it proved to be a real 'head-scratcher' for DLP investigators ... Oh well. : whis:

9mm v. 10mm on Bear:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?li...xO8i9R1s&mode=NORMAL

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:

quote:

Originally posted by Sevastopol:

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by Uncle Grinch:
I’m 70 years old and I say this to put a time frame on this.... when I was a teenager I remember reading a story in either Outdoor Life or Sports Afield about a hunter who defended himself against a black bear attack with a 9mm Browning pistol.

There was quite a few follow-up letters about this hunters choice of weapons. I’m sure there has been other occasions where “inadequate” firearms have been used to save a life.

Since it worked how can it be called inadequate?

"inadequate".

With most loads and bullet styles, the 9mm is definitely inadequate for stopping a charging bruin. Anyone can get lucky but the odds are against it ending well ...

The BB hardcast 9mm ammo Phil used in his S&W is likely the best penetrator if you're going to roll the 'survival dice' with the mini-meter against a hostile Grizz or Brownie.

Meanwhile Next-Generation Alaskans, like Chuke, are arming themselves with a 10mm Glock (G20 or G40) whenever they venture into the bear-filled boonies.

In the vid below, Chuke does 'comparative' penetration testing between 9mm and 10mm ammo. Interestingly, in his opening commentary, Chuke even remarks on the "mysterious" case of Phil's bear shooting.

Apparently, it proved to be a real 'head-scratcher' for DLP investigators ... Oh well.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?li...xO8i9R1s&mode=NORMAL

A YouTube star didn’t understand how a bear died from being shot? Do I translate that right?

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:

quote:

Originally posted by Sevastopol:

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by Uncle Grinch:
I’m 70 years old and I say this to put a time frame on this.... when I was a teenager I remember reading a story in either Outdoor Life or Sports Afield about a hunter who defended himself against a black bear attack with a 9mm Browning pistol.

There was quite a few follow-up letters about this hunters choice of weapons. I’m sure there has been other occasions where “inadequate” firearms have been used to save a life.

Since it worked how can it be called inadequate?

"inadequate".

With most loads and bullet styles, the 9mm is definitely inadequate for stopping a charging bruin. Anyone can get lucky but the odds are against it ending well ...

The BB hardcast 9mm ammo Phil used in his S&W is likely the best penetrator if you're going to roll the 'survival dice' with the mini-meter against a hostile Grizz or Brownie.

Meanwhile Next-Generation Alaskans, like Chuke, are arming themselves with a 10mm Glock (G20 or G40) whenever they venture into the bear-filled boonies.

In the vid below, Chuke does 'comparative' penetration testing between 9mm and 10mm ammo. Interestingly, in his opening commentary, Chuke even remarks on the "mysterious" case of Phil's bear shooting.

Apparently, it proved to be a real 'head-scratcher' for DLP investigators ... Oh well. : whis:

9mm v. 10mm on Bear:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?li...xO8i9R1s&mode=NORMAL

You and your YouTube hero are proving to be idiots.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
I'm not a handgun expert nor a bear expert. I also have never been charged by a bear nor dlp'd anything.
That said, I have lived here a while, do get out quite a bit and although I see or feel no reason to pack a heater, if I did I have thought for a while that the Smith & Wesson Airlite in a .357 or .44 would suit most needs just fine. I have no idea why I decided to chime in with that.

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:

quote:

Originally posted by Sevastopol:

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by Uncle Grinch:
I’m 70 years old and I say this to put a time frame on this.... when I was a teenager I remember reading a story in either Outdoor Life or Sports Afield about a hunter who defended himself against a black bear attack with a 9mm Browning pistol.

There was quite a few follow-up letters about this hunters choice of weapons. I’m sure there has been other occasions where “inadequate” firearms have been used to save a life.

Since it worked how can it be called inadequate?

"inadequate".

With most loads and bullet styles, the 9mm is definitely inadequate for stopping a charging bruin. Anyone can get lucky but the odds are against it ending well ...

The BB hardcast 9mm ammo Phil used in his S&W is likely the best penetrator if you're going to roll the 'survival dice' with the mini-meter against a hostile Grizz or Brownie.

Meanwhile Next-Generation Alaskans, like Chuke, are arming themselves with a 10mm Glock (G20 or G40) whenever they venture into the bear-filled boonies.

In the vid below, Chuke does 'comparative' penetration testing between 9mm and 10mm ammo. Interestingly, in his opening commentary, Chuke even remarks on the "mysterious" case of Phil's bear shooting.

Apparently, it proved to be a real 'head-scratcher' for DLP investigators ... Oh well. : whis:

9mm v. 10mm on Bear:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?li...xO8i9R1s&mode=NORMAL

You and your YouTube hero are proving to be idiots.

You're a frickin' moron. Find something in the bush to play with.

quote:

Originally posted by RCG:
jwp475, this guy is a fake and a troll. If you look at most of his posts, he is either trashing something or trying tell the world how smart he is compared to others.

His name, AJ Hydell, is an alias of Lee Harvey Oswald but even that is not correct. Oswald used "AJ Hidell". On the European Big Game forum, he posted about a Romania question by referencing a "Vampire" board, which I assume is a chatroom for losers who fantasize about that shit.

My guess is that he is late teens, living at home, working a dead end retail or food job, or just possibly going to junior community college. Bad complexion and only friends are a bunch of online losers like himself. A true internet commando.

His posts are amusing once you realize this fact. When he reads this, he will get excited because he thinks he is relevant. He isn't. Take care.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
Must've been a long time ago. Even 45 years ago in Montana unless the bear was inside the cabin, or breaking down the interior (not screen door) that wouldn't have qualified for a self-defense shooting. Big fines and loss of hunting privileges maybe permanently.

quote:

If You Kill a Bear in Defense of Life or Property (DLP)
You may kill a bear in defense of your life or property if you did not provoke an attack or cause a problem by negligently leaving human or pet food or garbage in a manner that attracts bears and if you have done everything else you can to protect your life and property (5 AAC 92.410).

Property means your dwelling, means of travel, pets or livestock, fish drying racks, or other valuable property necessary for your livelihood or survival. While game meat is considered your property, you may not kill a bear to protect it unless the meat is critical for your survival. Even in this situation you still must do everything possible to protect the meat (i.e. proper storage, scaring the scavenger, etc. See Safely in Bear Country) before you may kill the bear.

If you have to shoot a bear, be sure you shoot to kill - wounded bears are potentially more dangerous than healthy bears. Also be very careful of what lies beyond your intended target - stray bullets can travel over a mile and still be deadly.

Bears killed in defense of life or property belong to the state. If you kill a bear you must remove the hide from the carcass and must also salvage the skull. You must give both the hide, with claws attached, and the skull to ADF&G. You must also notify your local ADF&G Wildlife Conservation office or Alaska Wildlife Troopers immediately. You are required to fill out and submit a Defense of Life or Property Report Form (PDF 114 kB) questionnaire concerning the circumstances within 15 days.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Alaska:

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
Must've been a long time ago. Even 45 years ago in Montana unless the bear was inside the cabin, or breaking down the interior (not screen door) that wouldn't have qualified for a self-defense shooting. Big fines and loss of hunting privileges maybe permanently.

The laws aren't the same across the States.
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/ind...gwithbears.conflicts

quote:

If You Kill a Bear in Defense of Life or Property (DLP)
You may kill a bear in defense of your life or property if you did not provoke an attack or cause a problem by negligently leaving human or pet food or garbage in a manner that attracts bears and if you have done everything else you can to protect your life and property (5 AAC 92.410).

Property means your dwelling, means of travel, pets or livestock, fish drying racks, or other valuable property necessary for your livelihood or survival. While game meat is considered your property, you may not kill a bear to protect it unless the meat is critical for your survival. Even in this situation you still must do everything possible to protect the meat (i.e. proper storage, scaring the scavenger, etc. See Safely in Bear Country) before you may kill the bear.

If you have to shoot a bear, be sure you shoot to kill - wounded bears are potentially more dangerous than healthy bears. Also be very careful of what lies beyond your intended target - stray bullets can travel over a mile and still be deadly.

Bears killed in defense of life or property belong to the state. If you kill a bear you must remove the hide from the carcass and must also salvage the skull. You must give both the hide, with claws attached, and the skull to ADF&G. You must also notify your local ADF&G Wildlife Conservation office or Alaska Wildlife Troopers immediately. You are required to fill out and submit a Defense of Life or Property Report Form (PDF 114 kB) questionnaire concerning the circumstances within 15 days.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson: * * *
* * *
I would not cherish shooting bear or elephant with a pistol, much prefer a rifle, Im sure in each case Phil and my friend would preferred a .458 win., but sometimes we just have to make do with what we have.

quote:

Breaking news ...

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Breaking news ...

A couple days late.

A couple dollars short.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...3411043/m/5841025542

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
So a unloaded 10mm is not the best option?

quote:

As an afterthought, he took the GLOCK 20 10mm pistol from his vehicle and shoved it in his waistband behind his cowboy belt. It was loaded with 175 grain Hornady Critical Duty FlexLock loads. The magazine only had 10-12 rounds in it. A few months earlier, he had heard the theory of “spring set” and decided not to keep the magazine fully loaded.

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
So a unloaded 10mm is not the best option?

Unloaded?

Dude, did you read the linked article? ... Or are you just some backwoods bozo afflicted with a reading-comprehension deficit?

The NM guide in the article bought the 'reliability' cool-aid and down-loaded his 15-rd 10mm mag to 10-12rds, because he thought it would enhance feeding.

quote:

As an afterthought, he took the GLOCK 20 10mm pistol from his vehicle and shoved it in his waistband behind his cowboy belt. It was loaded with 175 grain Hornady Critical Duty FlexLock loads. The magazine only had 10-12 rounds in it. A few months earlier, he had heard the theory of “spring set” and decided not to keep the magazine fully loaded.

The guide lucked-out and escaped this incident without being severely mauled or killed, but his magazine 'loading strategy' was stupid.

Just as stupid was the guide's choice of 'bear protection' ammo. While Hornandy's 175-grainers might make for decent anti-human rounds, if you're going to go up against bears you should be loading 200gn or 220gn 10mm HC FP ammo, like the Chukenator dude uses.

That, and he lacked a pair of Texas-size 12s, which, admittedly, not every human can wear ...

Oh well, this dude, being from New Mexico, I'm sure he'll live and learn.

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
So a unloaded 10mm is not the best option?

Unloaded?

Dude, did you read the linked article? ... Or are you just some backwoods bozo afflicted with a reading-comprehension deficit?

The NM guide in the article bought the 'reliability' cool-aid and down-loaded his 15-rd 10mm mag to 10-12rds, because he thought it would enhance feeding.

quote:

As an afterthought, he took the GLOCK 20 10mm pistol from his vehicle and shoved it in his waistband behind his cowboy belt. It was loaded with 175 grain Hornady Critical Duty FlexLock loads. The magazine only had 10-12 rounds in it. A few months earlier, he had heard the theory of “spring set” and decided not to keep the magazine fully loaded.

The guide lucked-out and escaped this incident without being severely mauled or killed, but his magazine 'loading strategy' was stupid.

Just as stupid was the guide's choice of 'bear protection' ammo. While Hornandy's 175-grainers might make for decent anti-human rounds, if you're going to go up against bears you should be loading 200gn or 220gn 10mm HC FP ammo, like the Chukenator dude uses.

That, and he lacked a pair of Texas-size 12s, which, admittedly, not every human can wear ...

Oh well, this dude, being from New Mexico, I'm sure he'll live and learn.

Just a bozo I guess. Your correct I misread that. Sorry was unpacking from a real live actual hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
Haha well a 11 year old ram was taken as a grizzly bear as well. As always any tip is appreciated and hopefully earned.

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
Haha well a 11 year old ram was taken as a grizzly bear as well. As always any tip is appreciated and hopefully earned.

Interesting. Pics of said ram?

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
When you need a firearm most any firearm is better then no firearm.

When planning to use a firearm one makes the most informed choice.