Shooting Brown Bear With 9mm

12 August 2018, 20:03

quote:
Originally posted by jwp475:
quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Grinch:
I’m 70 years old and I say this to put a time frame on this.... when I was a teenager I remember reading a story in either Outdoor Life or Sports Afield about a hunter who defended himself against a black bear attack with a 9mm Browning pistol.

There was quite a few follow-up letters about this hunters choice of weapons. I’m sure there has been other occasions where “inadequate” firearms have been used to save a life.

Since it worked how can it be called inadequate?

"inadequate".

13 August 2018, 02:37

A.J. Hydell

quote:
Originally posted by Sevastopol:
quote:
Originally posted by jwp475:
quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Grinch:
I’m 70 years old and I say this to put a time frame on this.... when I was a teenager I remember reading a story in either Outdoor Life or Sports Afield about a hunter who defended himself against a black bear attack with a 9mm Browning pistol.

There was quite a few follow-up letters about this hunters choice of weapons. I’m sure there has been other occasions where “inadequate” firearms have been used to save a life.

Since it worked how can it be called inadequate?

"inadequate".

With most loads and bullet styles, the 9mm is definitely inadequate for stopping a charging bruin. Anyone can get lucky but the odds are against it ending well ...

The BB hardcast 9mm ammo Phil used in his S&W is likely the best penetrator if you're going to roll the 'survival dice' with the mini-meter against a hostile Grizz or Brownie.

Meanwhile Next-Generation Alaskans, like Chuke, are arming themselves with a 10mm Glock (G20 or G40) whenever they venture into the bear-filled boonies.

In the vid below, Chuke does 'comparative' penetration testing between 9mm and 10mm ammo. Interestingly, in his opening commentary, Chuke even remarks on the "mysterious" case of Phil's bear shooting.

Apparently, it proved to be a real 'head-scratcher' for DLP investigators ... Oh well.

9mm v. 10mm on Bear:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?li...xO8i9R1s&mode=NORMAL

13 August 2018, 02:42

cdparker

And long time Fairbanks NRA handgun instructor Joe Nava has preached the value of the 357 and hard cast Bullets for nearly 50 years.

Old story about Joe: He was home when he heard scratching on the screen door. He took his .357 and opened the door, there stood Mr. Fuzzmonster. Joe took his .357 and emptied it through the screen and slammed the door until it was all quiet out side. When he looked, there was the bear-very dead-just lying there. Guess his teaching did work after-all.

13 August 2018, 04:49

chuck375

Must've been a long time ago. Even 45 years ago in Montana unless the bear was inside the cabin, or breaking down the interior (not screen door) that wouldn't have qualified for a self-defense shooting. Big fines and loss of hunting privileges maybe permanently.

13 August 2018, 09:31

Fourtyonesix

quote:
Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
quote:
Originally posted by Sevastopol:
quote:
Originally posted by jwp475:
quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Grinch:
I’m 70 years old and I say this to put a time frame on this.... when I was a teenager I remember reading a story in either Outdoor Life or Sports Afield about a hunter who defended himself against a black bear attack with a 9mm Browning pistol.

There was quite a few follow-up letters about this hunters choice of weapons. I’m sure there has been other occasions where “inadequate” firearms have been used to save a life.

Since it worked how can it be called inadequate?

"inadequate".

With most loads and bullet styles, the 9mm is definitely inadequate for stopping a charging bruin. Anyone can get lucky but the odds are against it ending well ...

The BB hardcast 9mm ammo Phil used in his S&W is likely the best penetrator if you're going to roll the 'survival dice' with the mini-meter against a hostile Grizz or Brownie.

Meanwhile Next-Generation Alaskans, like Chuke, are arming themselves with a 10mm Glock (G20 or G40) whenever they venture into the bear-filled boonies.

In the vid below, Chuke does 'comparative' penetration testing between 9mm and 10mm ammo. Interestingly, in his opening commentary, Chuke even remarks on the "mysterious" case of Phil's bear shooting.

Apparently, it proved to be a real 'head-scratcher' for DLP investigators ... Oh well.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?li...xO8i9R1s&mode=NORMAL

A YouTube star didn’t understand how a bear died from being shot? Do I translate that right?

13 August 2018, 17:44

A.J. Hydell

quote:
Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
quote:
Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
quote:
Originally posted by Sevastopol:
quote:
Originally posted by jwp475:
quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Grinch:
I’m 70 years old and I say this to put a time frame on this.... when I was a teenager I remember reading a story in either Outdoor Life or Sports Afield about a hunter who defended himself against a black bear attack with a 9mm Browning pistol.

There was quite a few follow-up letters about this hunters choice of weapons. I’m sure there has been other occasions where “inadequate” firearms have been used to save a life.

Since it worked how can it be called inadequate?

"inadequate".

With most loads and bullet styles, the 9mm is definitely inadequate for stopping a charging bruin. Anyone can get lucky but the odds are against it ending well ...

The BB hardcast 9mm ammo Phil used in his S&W is likely the best penetrator if you're going to roll the 'survival dice' with the mini-meter against a hostile Grizz or Brownie.

Meanwhile Next-Generation Alaskans, like Chuke, are arming themselves with a 10mm Glock (G20 or G40) whenever they venture into the bear-filled boonies.

In the vid below, Chuke does 'comparative' penetration testing between 9mm and 10mm ammo. Interestingly, in his opening commentary, Chuke even remarks on the "mysterious" case of Phil's bear shooting.

Apparently, it proved to be a real 'head-scratcher' for DLP investigators ... Oh well.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?li...xO8i9R1s&mode=NORMAL

A YouTube star didn’t understand how a bear died from being shot? Do I translate that right?

Not quite ...

Chuke starts talking about Phil's case around the 1:33 mark. The "mysterious" comments start at 2:00-2:25, where he refers to the "Fish & Game" investigators "being unable to find the kill shot."

If F&G 'experts' can't figure it out, you send in the Chuke dude to figure it out.

Sort of a young Sherlock Holmes of the AK boonies, ... but instead of a Webley, he packs a Glock 20.

13 August 2018, 22:29

458Win

With severely limited internet in our camp I haven't bothered to looked at the internet movie stars clips,and have never heard of this Chuke dude, but will tell you, as will our game warden and biologists who took my report and the hide, that I was in touch with them within an hour of the incident happening and they simply gave me the go ahead to bring in what was physically feasible as they knew where and how it was killed.
THERE WAS NO GESTAPO LIKE HARRASSMENT , they all acted professional.

As for no killing hit, the client and my daughter helped with the skinning, we took many photos of the area and situation, as well as the skinning and bullet holes. Including one that was visible on the off-side ! Virtually all of them were killing shots and if I decide to publish a piece I have photos of both the carcass and the hide with all the bullet holes marked.

As for testing, I have since tested the 10mm and while it may offer more shots and a slightly larger hole, the 357 loads I used gave just as deep of penetration and usually a bit more.
Both should work fine

13 August 2018, 22:34

Fourtyonesix

Phil, no one here or in a state smaller than alaska is interested in facts or photos. We get our truth from YouTube experts these days. Next video out now will say your advocating a 10mm as bear protection!!

AJ!!! Start a new thread, phil has spoken!! call this Chuckle fella!

13 August 2018, 22:45

458Win

Think of dustup that would have happened if I had been carrying my Tokarev ! I carried one in Vietnam and for a few years here in Alaska and that little sucker penetrates !

Of course all the recent bear experts from southern states would first have to google Tokarev to see what they were badmouthing

13 August 2018, 23:18

Fourtyonesix

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 458Win:
Think of dustup that would have happened if I had been carrying my Tokarev ! I carried one in Vietnam and for a few years here in Alaska and that little sucker penetrates !

Of course all the recent bear experts from southern states would first have to google Tokarev to see what they were badmouthing[/QUOTE

Your implying they do research before opening their mouth. To much credit I think.
Course if a guy name chuke on YouTube is your source....

14 August 2018, 02:26

jwp475

quote:
Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
quote:
Originally posted by Sevastopol:
quote:
Originally posted by jwp475:
quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Grinch:
I’m 70 years old and I say this to put a time frame on this.... when I was a teenager I remember reading a story in either Outdoor Life or Sports Afield about a hunter who defended himself against a black bear attack with a 9mm Browning pistol.

There was quite a few follow-up letters about this hunters choice of weapons. I’m sure there has been other occasions where “inadequate” firearms have been used to save a life.

Since it worked how can it be called inadequate?

"inadequate".

With most loads and bullet styles, the 9mm is definitely inadequate for stopping a charging bruin. Anyone can get lucky but the odds are against it ending well ...

The BB hardcast 9mm ammo Phil used in his S&W is likely the best penetrator if you're going to roll the 'survival dice' with the mini-meter against a hostile Grizz or Brownie.

Meanwhile Next-Generation Alaskans, like Chuke, are arming themselves with a 10mm Glock (G20 or G40) whenever they venture into the bear-filled boonies.

In the vid below, Chuke does 'comparative' penetration testing between 9mm and 10mm ammo. Interestingly, in his opening commentary, Chuke even remarks on the "mysterious" case of Phil's bear shooting.

Apparently, it proved to be a real 'head-scratcher' for DLP investigators ... Oh well. : whis:

9mm v. 10mm on Bear:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?li...xO8i9R1s&mode=NORMAL

You and your YouTube hero are proving to be idiots.

14 August 2018, 02:38

Scott King

quote:
Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
quote:
Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
quote:
Originally posted by Sevastopol:
quote:
Originally posted by jwp475:
quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Grinch:
I’m 70 years old and I say this to put a time frame on this.... when I was a teenager I remember reading a story in either Outdoor Life or Sports Afield about a hunter who defended himself against a black bear attack with a 9mm Browning pistol.

There was quite a few follow-up letters about this hunters choice of weapons. I’m sure there has been other occasions where “inadequate” firearms have been used to save a life.

Since it worked how can it be called inadequate?

"inadequate".

With most loads and bullet styles, the 9mm is definitely inadequate for stopping a charging bruin. Anyone can get lucky but the odds are against it ending well ...

The BB hardcast 9mm ammo Phil used in his S&W is likely the best penetrator if you're going to roll the 'survival dice' with the mini-meter against a hostile Grizz or Brownie.

Meanwhile Next-Generation Alaskans, like Chuke, are arming themselves with a 10mm Glock (G20 or G40) whenever they venture into the bear-filled boonies.

In the vid below, Chuke does 'comparative' penetration testing between 9mm and 10mm ammo. Interestingly, in his opening commentary, Chuke even remarks on the "mysterious" case of Phil's bear shooting.

Apparently, it proved to be a real 'head-scratcher' for DLP investigators ... Oh well.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?li...xO8i9R1s&mode=NORMAL

A YouTube star didn’t understand how a bear died from being shot? Do I translate that right?

Does YouTube assign names like Chuke or is that self inflicted?

14 August 2018, 02:52

Scott King

I'm not a handgun expert nor a bear expert. I also have never been charged by a bear nor dlp'd anything.
That said, I have lived here a while, do get out quite a bit and although I see or feel no reason to pack a heater, if I did I have thought for a while that the Smith & Wesson Airlite in a .357 or .44 would suit most needs just fine.
I have no idea why I decided to chime in with that.

14 August 2018, 03:10

A.J. Hydell

quote:
Originally posted by jwp475:
quote:
Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
quote:
Originally posted by Sevastopol:
quote:
Originally posted by jwp475:
quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Grinch:
I’m 70 years old and I say this to put a time frame on this.... when I was a teenager I remember reading a story in either Outdoor Life or Sports Afield about a hunter who defended himself against a black bear attack with a 9mm Browning pistol.

There was quite a few follow-up letters about this hunters choice of weapons. I’m sure there has been other occasions where “inadequate” firearms have been used to save a life.

Since it worked how can it be called inadequate?

"inadequate".

With most loads and bullet styles, the 9mm is definitely inadequate for stopping a charging bruin. Anyone can get lucky but the odds are against it ending well ...

The BB hardcast 9mm ammo Phil used in his S&W is likely the best penetrator if you're going to roll the 'survival dice' with the mini-meter against a hostile Grizz or Brownie.

Meanwhile Next-Generation Alaskans, like Chuke, are arming themselves with a 10mm Glock (G20 or G40) whenever they venture into the bear-filled boonies.

In the vid below, Chuke does 'comparative' penetration testing between 9mm and 10mm ammo. Interestingly, in his opening commentary, Chuke even remarks on the "mysterious" case of Phil's bear shooting.

Apparently, it proved to be a real 'head-scratcher' for DLP investigators ... Oh well. : whis:

9mm v. 10mm on Bear:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?li...xO8i9R1s&mode=NORMAL

You and your YouTube hero are proving to be idiots.

You're a frickin' moron. Find something in the bush to play with.

14 August 2018, 03:17

A.J. Hydell

quote:
Originally posted by Scott King:
I'm not a handgun expert nor a bear expert. I also have never been charged by a bear nor dlp'd anything.
That said, I have lived here a while, do get out quite a bit and although I see or feel no reason to pack a heater, if I did I have thought for a while that the Smith & Wesson Airlite in a .357 or .44 would suit most needs just fine. I have no idea why I decided to chime in with that.

Actually, yours was one of the more recent, relevant posts that actually makes sense.

Don't agree on your choice of handgun, but that's secondary.

14 August 2018, 05:06

jwp475

quote:
Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
quote:
Originally posted by jwp475:
quote:
Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
quote:
Originally posted by Sevastopol:
quote:
Originally posted by jwp475:
quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Grinch:
I’m 70 years old and I say this to put a time frame on this.... when I was a teenager I remember reading a story in either Outdoor Life or Sports Afield about a hunter who defended himself against a black bear attack with a 9mm Browning pistol.

There was quite a few follow-up letters about this hunters choice of weapons. I’m sure there has been other occasions where “inadequate” firearms have been used to save a life.

Since it worked how can it be called inadequate?

"inadequate".

With most loads and bullet styles, the 9mm is definitely inadequate for stopping a charging bruin. Anyone can get lucky but the odds are against it ending well ...

The BB hardcast 9mm ammo Phil used in his S&W is likely the best penetrator if you're going to roll the 'survival dice' with the mini-meter against a hostile Grizz or Brownie.

Meanwhile Next-Generation Alaskans, like Chuke, are arming themselves with a 10mm Glock (G20 or G40) whenever they venture into the bear-filled boonies.

In the vid below, Chuke does 'comparative' penetration testing between 9mm and 10mm ammo. Interestingly, in his opening commentary, Chuke even remarks on the "mysterious" case of Phil's bear shooting.

Apparently, it proved to be a real 'head-scratcher' for DLP investigators ... Oh well. : whis:

9mm v. 10mm on Bear:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?li...xO8i9R1s&mode=NORMAL

You and your YouTube hero are proving to be idiots.

You're a frickin' moron. Find something in the bush to play with.

I’m a hell of a lot smarter than you and a hell of a lot more experienced

14 August 2018, 06:10

RCG

jwp475, this guy is a fake and a troll. If you look at most of his posts, he is either trashing something or trying tell the world how smart he is compared to others.

His name, AJ Hydell, is an alias of Lee Harvey Oswald but even that is not correct. Oswald used "AJ Hidell". On the European Big Game forum, he posted about a Romania question by referencing a "Vampire" board, which I assume is a chatroom for losers who fantasize about that shit.

My guess is that he is late teens, living at home, working a dead end retail or food job, or just possibly going to junior community college. Bad complexion and only friends are a bunch of online losers like himself. A true internet commando.

His posts are amusing once you realize this fact. When he reads this, he will get excited because he thinks he is relevant. He isn't. Take care.

15 August 2018, 10:08

A7Dave

quote:
Originally posted by RCG:
jwp475, this guy is a fake and a troll. If you look at most of his posts, he is either trashing something or trying tell the world how smart he is compared to others.

His name, AJ Hydell, is an alias of Lee Harvey Oswald but even that is not correct. Oswald used "AJ Hidell". On the European Big Game forum, he posted about a Romania question by referencing a "Vampire" board, which I assume is a chatroom for losers who fantasize about that shit.

My guess is that he is late teens, living at home, working a dead end retail or food job, or just possibly going to junior community college. Bad complexion and only friends are a bunch of online losers like himself. A true internet commando.

His posts are amusing once you realize this fact. When he reads this, he will get excited because he thinks he is relevant. He isn't. Take care.

Not to worry, he's busy "chuking the chicken", but he'll be back soon to wow us with his brilliance and keen wit. That's just how he trolls...

18 August 2018, 23:58

Ray Alaska

quote:
Originally posted by chuck375:
Must've been a long time ago. Even 45 years ago in Montana unless the bear was inside the cabin, or breaking down the interior (not screen door) that wouldn't have qualified for a self-defense shooting. Big fines and loss of hunting privileges maybe permanently.

The laws aren't the same across the States.
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/ind...gwithbears.conflicts

quote:
If You Kill a Bear in Defense of Life or Property (DLP)
You may kill a bear in defense of your life or property if you did not provoke an attack or cause a problem by negligently leaving human or pet food or garbage in a manner that attracts bears and if you have done everything else you can to protect your life and property (5 AAC 92.410).

Property means your dwelling, means of travel, pets or livestock, fish drying racks, or other valuable property necessary for your livelihood or survival. While game meat is considered your property, you may not kill a bear to protect it unless the meat is critical for your survival. Even in this situation you still must do everything possible to protect the meat (i.e. proper storage, scaring the scavenger, etc. See Safely in Bear Country) before you may kill the bear.

If you have to shoot a bear, be sure you shoot to kill - wounded bears are potentially more dangerous than healthy bears. Also be very careful of what lies beyond your intended target - stray bullets can travel over a mile and still be deadly.

Bears killed in defense of life or property belong to the state. If you kill a bear you must remove the hide from the carcass and must also salvage the skull. You must give both the hide, with claws attached, and the skull to ADF&G. You must also notify your local ADF&G Wildlife Conservation office or Alaska Wildlife Troopers immediately. You are required to fill out and submit a Defense of Life or Property Report Form (PDF 114 kB) questionnaire concerning the circumstances within 15 days.

23 August 2018, 18:07

DCS Member

http://sportingclassicsdaily.c...db&mc_eid=7b9a2b5f07

23 August 2018, 20:03

Acer

I'd be willing to contribute to a Gofundme just to get him to change his location.

Embarassing

24 August 2018, 03:01

chuck375

quote:
Originally posted by Ray Alaska:
quote:
Originally posted by chuck375:
Must've been a long time ago. Even 45 years ago in Montana unless the bear was inside the cabin, or breaking down the interior (not screen door) that wouldn't have qualified for a self-defense shooting. Big fines and loss of hunting privileges maybe permanently.

The laws aren't the same across the States.
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/ind...gwithbears.conflicts

quote:
If You Kill a Bear in Defense of Life or Property (DLP)
You may kill a bear in defense of your life or property if you did not provoke an attack or cause a problem by negligently leaving human or pet food or garbage in a manner that attracts bears and if you have done everything else you can to protect your life and property (5 AAC 92.410).

Property means your dwelling, means of travel, pets or livestock, fish drying racks, or other valuable property necessary for your livelihood or survival. While game meat is considered your property, you may not kill a bear to protect it unless the meat is critical for your survival. Even in this situation you still must do everything possible to protect the meat (i.e. proper storage, scaring the scavenger, etc. See Safely in Bear Country) before you may kill the bear.

If you have to shoot a bear, be sure you shoot to kill - wounded bears are potentially more dangerous than healthy bears. Also be very careful of what lies beyond your intended target - stray bullets can travel over a mile and still be deadly.

Bears killed in defense of life or property belong to the state. If you kill a bear you must remove the hide from the carcass and must also salvage the skull. You must give both the hide, with claws attached, and the skull to ADF&G. You must also notify your local ADF&G Wildlife Conservation office or Alaska Wildlife Troopers immediately. You are required to fill out and submit a Defense of Life or Property Report Form (PDF 114 kB) questionnaire concerning the circumstances within 15 days.

Fair enough. Every state is different.

15 September 2018, 00:17

Atkinson

I know a PH in Africa who was a employee in Kruger park, his job was anaimal control..I know he killed an elephant with his 44 S&W 6", and a Lion some years later with the same pistol. It can be done without a doubt. In both cases he had no other option, Same with PHil that was his only option and it worked, end of story and think goodness.

I would not cherish shooting bear or elephant with a pistol, much prefer a rifle, Im sure in each case Phil and my friend would preferred a .458 win., but sometimes we just have to make do with what we have.

15 September 2018, 16:01

A.J. Hydell

quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson: * * *
* * *
I would not cherish shooting bear or elephant with a pistol, much prefer a rifle, Im sure in each case Phil and my friend would preferred a .458 win., but sometimes we just have to make do with what we have.

Breaking news ...

'Bear Guide' Stops Attack with 10mm Glock:
https://www.alloutdoor.com/201...gn=Weekly+Newsletter

15 September 2018, 19:37

p dog shooter

quote:
Breaking news ...

A couple days late.

A couple dollars short.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...3411043/m/5841025542

15 September 2018, 22:42

Fourtyonesix

So a unloaded 10mm is not the best option?

15 September 2018, 23:47

LHeym500

The lesson to me seems to be most packing handguns. Meaning handguns one can control with one hand require bullet construction and bullet placement to reach the CNS.

I would rather have the hard cast 147 35 caliber than the soft expandable 175 40 caliber bullet for the work of reaching the CNS.

The more powerful cartridges in handguns give a little more fuel and bullet to get through the bone and muscle structure to reach and sever the CNS. Anything less than severing the CNS is a miracle.

A 30/30 would have made the shot into he head easier. I am glad he got it sorted out and was able to retell the event and it appears he should heal well.

There is always something heavier and better. Notice the columnist suggest a heavier chambered revolver.

17 September 2018, 01:52

A.J. Hydell

quote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:
quote:
Breaking news ...

A couple days late.

A couple dollars short.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...3411043/m/5841025542

Not on this thread, dude.

It's new news for most of these sleep-walkers.

17 September 2018, 02:03

A.J. Hydell

quote:
Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
So a unloaded 10mm is not the best option?

Unloaded?

Dude, did you read the linked article? ... Or are you just some backwoods bozo afflicted with a reading-comprehension deficit?

The NM guide in the article bought the 'reliability' cool-aid and down-loaded his 15-rd 10mm mag to 10-12rds, because he thought it would enhance feeding.

quote:
As an afterthought, he took the GLOCK 20 10mm pistol from his vehicle and shoved it in his waistband behind his cowboy belt. It was loaded with 175 grain Hornady Critical Duty FlexLock loads. The magazine only had 10-12 rounds in it. A few months earlier, he had heard the theory of “spring set” and decided not to keep the magazine fully loaded.

The guide lucked-out and escaped this incident without being severely mauled or killed, but his magazine 'loading strategy' was stupid.

Just as stupid was the guide's choice of 'bear protection' ammo. While Hornandy's 175-grainers might make for decent anti-human rounds, if you're going to go up against bears you should be loading 200gn or 220gn 10mm HC FP ammo, like the Chukenator dude uses.

That, and he lacked a pair of Texas-size 12s, which, admittedly, not every human can wear ...

Oh well, this dude, being from New Mexico, I'm sure he'll live and learn.

17 September 2018, 05:29

Fourtyonesix

quote:
Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
quote:
Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
So a unloaded 10mm is not the best option?

Unloaded?

Dude, did you read the linked article? ... Or are you just some backwoods bozo afflicted with a reading-comprehension deficit?

The NM guide in the article bought the 'reliability' cool-aid and down-loaded his 15-rd 10mm mag to 10-12rds, because he thought it would enhance feeding.

quote:
As an afterthought, he took the GLOCK 20 10mm pistol from his vehicle and shoved it in his waistband behind his cowboy belt. It was loaded with 175 grain Hornady Critical Duty FlexLock loads. The magazine only had 10-12 rounds in it. A few months earlier, he had heard the theory of “spring set” and decided not to keep the magazine fully loaded.

The guide lucked-out and escaped this incident without being severely mauled or killed, but his magazine 'loading strategy' was stupid.

Just as stupid was the guide's choice of 'bear protection' ammo. While Hornandy's 175-grainers might make for decent anti-human rounds, if you're going to go up against bears you should be loading 200gn or 220gn 10mm HC FP ammo, like the Chukenator dude uses.

That, and he lacked a pair of Texas-size 12s, which, admittedly, not every human can wear ...

Oh well, this dude, being from New Mexico, I'm sure he'll live and learn.

Just a bozo I guess. Your correct I misread that. Sorry was unpacking from a real live actual hunt.

19 September 2018, 03:41

A.J. Hydell

quote:
Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
quote:
Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
quote:
Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
So a unloaded 10mm is not the best option?

Unloaded?

Dude, did you read the linked article? ... Or are you just some backwoods bozo afflicted with a reading-comprehension deficit?

The NM guide in the article bought the 'reliability' cool-aid and down-loaded his 15-rd 10mm mag to 10-12rds, because he thought it would enhance feeding.

quote:
As an afterthought, he took the GLOCK 20 10mm pistol from his vehicle and shoved it in his waistband behind his cowboy belt. It was loaded with 175 grain Hornady Critical Duty FlexLock loads. The magazine only had 10-12 rounds in it. A few months earlier, he had heard the theory of “spring set” and decided not to keep the magazine fully loaded.

The guide lucked-out and escaped this incident without being severely mauled or killed, but his magazine 'loading strategy' was stupid.

Just as stupid was the guide's choice of 'bear protection' ammo. While Hornandy's 175-grainers might make for decent anti-human rounds, if you're going to go up against bears you should be loading 200gn or 220gn 10mm HC FP ammo, like the Chukenator dude uses.

That, and he lacked a pair of Texas-size 12s, which, admittedly, not every human can wear ...

Oh well, this dude, being from New Mexico, I'm sure he'll live and learn.

Just a bozo I guess. Your correct I misread that. Sorry was unpacking from a real live actual hunt.

Okay, sorry if it seemed a bit harsh there.

Hope your 'real live actual hunt' went well, good animals were taken, and your clients tipped as expected.

19 September 2018, 03:55

Fourtyonesix

Haha well a 11 year old ram was taken as a grizzly bear as well. As always any tip is appreciated and hopefully earned.

19 September 2018, 04:01

A.J. Hydell

quote:
Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
Haha well a 11 year old ram was taken as a grizzly bear as well. As always any tip is appreciated and hopefully earned.

Interesting. Pics of said ram?

19 September 2018, 04:54

A7Dave

Just one page down.

19 September 2018, 06:46

Fourtyonesix

quote:
Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
quote:
Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
Haha well a 11 year old ram was taken as a grizzly bear as well. As always any tip is appreciated and hopefully earned.

Interesting. Pics of said ram?

What are you some sorta internet bozo?! See thread titled “my 2018 guiding season”.

21 September 2018, 20:43

Atkinson

In my younger years with DEA working with the Mexican police raiding Heroin labs, I saw a number of shootings by those folks..My opinion boiled down to the best killer pistol was a 9MM with the Border Patrol plus P Plus loads we gave them. It out performed the 45 ACP and that was apparent, but listening to the expert that is a violation of the 11th comandment..I carried and still have my Browning Hi Power. I still load it with the Border Patrol load..I have a few boxes left over they gave me also..Never shot a bear with it, but if that's what I had, I think with proper loads that penetrate I could get by..With a pistol penetration is everything on large animals and damn handy with a rifle.

Bottom line is it worked with Phil and saved his and his clients bacon, why argue with that..Does success no longer count?, and of all the posts here, who else has killed a bear with a pistol or with a 9mm...

26 September 2018, 12:33

georgeld

Ray:

Hope it does IF you ever have the need.

George

27 September 2018, 21:36

458Win

Ray, the Browning HP is what Alaskan guide Andy Runyon also used to kill a large brown bear and I am sure you are cool enough to pull it off if it was ever necessary.

So while the facts have shown that killing big bears doesn't require the various hand cannons some people are convinced they need - as proven by at least two old Alaskan guides - anyone who wants to prove otherwise is more than welcome to come up and I will gladly show them some places to try.