I recently returned from my black bear hunt in British Columbia. My primary rifle for the hunt was a semi-custom 338 Federal on a Rem model 7 action which was built by Hill Country Rifles here in Texas. I devoted quite a bit of time to load developement for this hunt and actually almost ran out of time before I settled on a load. My load was 46.0gr. RL15 under a 210 Partition. This load chrono'ed just under 2500fps and was a consistant 1/2" to 3/4" load. I spent enough time with the rifle and load to feel confident that I could drill anything I wanted at 200 yards or so. Ok, now you have the background.

On the second evening of the bear hunt we (me, a buddy and the outfitter) were on our way back to camp after my buddy tagged out on a very nice boar. It was beginning to get late but there was still some shooting time left. We rounded a corner in the logging road and saw a bear feeding in a clear cut off to the left. The outfitter looked it over for awhile and decided that it was a shooter. I got to a position and ranged the bear and got readings between 174 and 176 yards. No problem. Since it was getting late I told the outfitter that I was going to shoot it through the shoulders to bust it down. I waited for my perfect broadside shot and when everything felt good I touched the trigger. At the shot the bear pitched forward on the near shoulder that I shot, rolled around and scrambled out of sight without ever really regaining his feet. The sound of the impact was the most solid and loudest that I can remember hearing. It happened way too fast to get another shot in or I would have tried. Anyway, it's pretty late now. I feel very confident that the bear is dead within about 50 yards. We take a cursory look and I suggest we come back in the morning with better light and a couple of other guys to give us a hand...besides, I wasn't all that crazy about following up a wounded bear at night! Long story short, we lost that bear. After doing several grid searches of the area with 8 or 9 guys involved and given the limited cover that the bear could be hidden in, I feel confident that we didn't overlook him.

The outfitter, a grizzled veteran outfitter with years of experience, was just as surprised as I was. We are both still scratching our heads wondering just what in the hell happened???

Any ideas???

I ended up later taking a 6-1/2' boar AND a wolf with my old faithful Browning A-bolt in 300 Win Mag. See the Canadian forum for the pics.

Every once in a while.....sheeet happens... It's not a private club....

It sounds like you had everything together there? I'm not so sure I would let one incident sour you on the rifle/caliber. Glad everything worked out for you in the end.

I have to agree with unitsa.
It rather hard to blame a cartridge, Its posible you bullet did not perform.
The velocity at 175 yards was prety low.
Could be your bullet did not expand at all.
Theres really no telling what happend , I might sugjest the speer .338 200 grain flat base.
You should get better velocity and the bc is .448 so it would shed velocity prety slow.
The bullet should hold together as its not being pushed to hard yet might expand better than a partition at low velocity. Stll think your load should have worked though.

All that said I think the good old 35 whelen would be the ideal black bear round. Can't do it on a model 7 of course ,I think its hard to beat the .308 with a 165 grain partition or 168 gr tripple shock for versitility in a short action.
Modern bullets really are designed for a higher impact velocity.
I am sure the 210 partition was built as a open country bullet for the .338 win mag pushing it at 3000 more or less and you impact velocity was prbably 2100 or so....tj3006

TJ, you make a good point, but I do understand a partition's front half is designed to expand easily, even at reduced speeds, it could be a combo of many things, but w/o ever recovering an animal, EVERYTHING truly is speculation, so when you take emotion from a disappointing situation, and apply logic or even science, w/o an animal and/or bullet recovered, and not really knowing where the bullet hit, and traveled, I don't think you can draw any accurate conclusions.

The SAME hit with another ctg may have had the same result. I had a deer run 60 yds one evening and looked for 2 hours in cirlces, only to find it the next day after the buzzards located it in a small ditch just 8-12 feet or so from the tracks of the 4 wheeler and truck we went in circles with looking for it. I hate trying to find game at night, too bad you did not have a tracking dog, it may have found the animal. It sounds like the bear took a good hit, and a mortal one.

Again, w/o recovery, cannot say what really happened. I am sorry for the lost animal and situation you experienced. I don't think the norm will be that with this round.

By the way, just curious, how far out was the grid search? I know it only takes seconds for animals to travel a hundred yards so it could have been dead on it's feet and made it oustide the grid search, that is my guess if you had a good hit which it seems like you did.

You did witness a very solid audible hit, so I would believe that bear was down, somewhere.

Hard to fault the bullet, let alone the cartridge, without a necropsy. Might have drilled through if it lacked sufficient impact velocity, might have come apart or been turned on the knob of the humerus, might have gone high and clipped a vertebral process. Regretably only the crows know for sure...

6.5BR

The area of the grid search was rather large. We covered the whole area of the clear cut. When I say clear cut this was an older clear cut with small pines and very little underbrush. We covered at least 200-300 yards to the left and right of where we last saw the bear and approximately 500-700 yards deep. We actually went into the bush that wasn't cut on all sides. Like I said, we made a damned determined effort to find this bear. We searched the area twice the day after I shot it.
We could have missed it but given the circumstances, I don't think so.....someone should have come across it.

My feeling on it was that the shoulder took the whole impact and the bullet never went any further. Hard to believe but that is the only logical conclusion I can come up with given the circumstances.

nordrseta,

I doubt very much that the bullet went high because of the massive body hit that was visible and heard.

Who knows what happened. I asked the outfitter to keep an eye out for crows and such in the area. He wants to know what happened just as much as I do.
I have a called and left a message with him on other matters as well, maybe he knows something.

First of all, I'm sorry for your wounded/lost bear; IMO, the main reason is that you had no luck; sometimes, 1 or 2 inches shift in a bullet path is all the difference between a wounded and a dead animal, - BUT - I made a quick estimate of the V/175 yds velocity, that was, possibly, a little low, barely 2130 fps. Maybe 200/300 fps more COULD have made the difference. I'm not a superhighspeed fan, but my only hunt calibers are 300 Win. Mag and 270 WSM.

I wouldn't blame it too much on the cartridge. Like 6.5 said, w/o the animal all we can do is speculate. Shoot a couple Texas hogs and Deer with that rig to regain your confidence.

Good Luck

Reloader

Big black bears are very tough. I've seen them make a lot of tracks with extremely crippling wounds. I get a laugh out of people who say any deer caliber(243,257) is fine for blacks. Maybe small ones but big bears take a lot of killing. Once hit the hide and fat shift around makeing tracking very difficult. Use a suitable caliber, get close and break them down. You don't need a cannon but proper placement and stout bullets to smash big bones are required.

quote:

Use a suitable caliber, get close and break them down. You don't need a cannon but proper placement and stout bullets to smash big bones are required.

That was my intention!

Wes,
The Rem M-7 is a neat action and I sure like mine. I can easliy understand wanting a hunting rifle on one of these.

As to the bear......get over it.....Life don't offer answers to everything! and this event for certain.

While the 338-06 would have pushed that same bullet a good 350'/sec faster, this too is no guarantee of a bear in the same light as your hunt. The same thing has happened to me and I was lucky.....the tracker found my trophy!

The worst thing here is what I see as your loss of confidence in the cartridge.....ya just have to think it over.....if nothing else, it'll make you a better shooter in the future!

Your bullet arrived on target with about 1,875 ft-lb of energy FWIW! (A 338-06 would have arrived with about 2,600 ft-lb)

No matter what we say it will still bug you for a while to come. Since it does not go real fast in that bullet weight I would lean toward the TSX which gives better penetration and a little more speed. Just my 2 cents worth.

If you would have used a .358 Win. that bear would be in your freezer. ;-)

I don't shoot bears but I do shoot a lot of deer. The scenario you describe leads me to a conclusion I would bet a reasonable amount of money on.

Angles of game can be hard to judge - by your own admission it was starting to get darker. Your desire to hit the shoulders would have led to a slightly forward shot placement. Add in only a small amount of angle either way and it is possible to break the near or far shoulder without hitting the ribcage/vitals. The reaction of the game indicates you hit at least one shoulder. The chances of it surviving with two broken shoulders is virtualy nil as the bullet path involves vitals.

With single shoulder hit with not vitals hit, the animal reacts much as you describe and if in undergrowth will run off unseen without much blood at all. I was interested in your comment that the bullet strike was very loud - did the sound have quite a hard edge to it - such shoulder strikes often do.

You absolutely did the right thing on waiting till morning

I have done this 3 times on deer (about 0.3% in case people think I'm foolhardy) one is still alive to this day limping but otherwise fine/

The shoulder shot is a bit of a myth. Extra lethality is gained by extra expansion on bone structures but I have repeatedly seen deer run perfectly well on two broken shoulders. Beats me how they do it but they do.

If it was a deer I really would be very confident that this is what happened. If bear anatomy is radicaly different my apologies for time wasting.

Hi Wes, no problem with your gun/bullet. I'm just saying stuff happens when bear hunting. We used to hunt bears every spring here. Great reson to get out with your guns early in the year. I've taken a few and seen many taken. Its a tough thing to have an animal get away, all you can do is try to put it behind you. I've seen them go right down on the first hit but also seen them take 2-3 hits from a .416?

Nosler partitions require 2,000 fps velocity to insure expansion. Starting a 210-grain 338 partition out at 2,400 fps, it will be down to 2,193 at 100 yards and 1,997 fps at 200 yards. You said your muzzle velocity was a little under 2,500 fps, so you should have been fine at 176 yards velocity wise.

Take 5 or 6 one-gallon milk jugs and fill them with water. Line them all up in a row at 200 yards and shoot them with your load to see what kind of penetration and expansion you are getting. That ought to tell you where you are load and bullet wise.

If the Partitions are too hard for your velocity level, look to a Ballistic Tip or a Hornady SST as they will expand down to 1,600 fps...Rusty.

Just out of curiosity I looked at an excellent site that shows the bears skeletal structure, muscle, circulatory system and vitals. By remembering the placement of the crosshairs as the shot broke I believe that the bullet may have impacted the upper 'ball end' of the front leg. This may have been enough to keep the bullet from going much further at the velocity it was going upon impact.

Well, like I said....I'm not sure what happened with the 338 Fed but I wish I had listened to myself when I originally wanted to take my 375 H&H as my primary rifle. I think that I would have had a little different outcome!

quote:

Originally posted by MTM:
Hi Wes, no problem with your gun/bullet. I'm just saying stuff happens when bear hunting. We used to hunt bears every spring here. Great reson to get out with your guns early in the year. I've taken a few and seen many taken. Its a tough thing to have an animal get away, all you can do is try to put it behind you. I've seen them go right down on the first hit but also seen them take 2-3 hits from a .416?

That's funny......I remember someone telling me sometime ago that black bears were relatively 'soft'!

Next time my 2 gun battery is my 300 Win Mag (has accounted for both of my black bears) and my 375 H&H.......I ain't screwin' around no mo'!!!

I really ahte to hear of your dissappointment and the scuffed up bear. I hope he is able to recover fully. ANimals that get killed and during autopsy often reveal what an amazing amount of physical harm they can overcome. Sure do hope this bear is going to be fine and soemone 3 years down the road can have a "hey, look at this!" moment when he is butchering the bear.

I agree with 1894. It is very easy to be a few degrees off in the angle, and when shooting forward on game, that can be all it takes to go from a killing shot to one that just scuffs them up.

Another distinct possibility is the the bullet may have lightly hit a twig, leaf, blade of grass, whateevr, en route to the bear. Given where you were trying to hit him, destabilizing the bullet a little before impact could be big trouble. Add to this the likelyhood that the angle was 5-10 degrees different than you thought, and the likely outcome is just what you describe.

One thing is for sure: there is nothing wrong with the cartridge, load, or bullet. If the Partition hit the ball socket, I can not imagine it not getting into the chest cavity. It would be the very first one I have ever heard of doing this. The only partition I had shed both cores centered the ball joing on a bull moose. It was in the rib cage on the other side of the animal, which was larger than the ebar you ahot at. ANd this was with a 7mm bullet moving fairly slow. The odds of the partition not getting in the chest cavity due to bullet failure are for all practical purposes nil.

I understand where you are coming from and can sympathize with you. i ahev been there and really hate it when I scuff up game and can not recover it. The first things that run through my mind are rifle, bullet, load, scope, anything but me! But when I look at it and replay it in my mind, I always come back to it being my fault. So it is totally natural for you to be feeling this way.

Most of the game that I have tracked and/or finally finished off when folks were "trying to break him down in the shoulders" was shot too far forward. I will bet my most expensive rifle this is what happened here. Basing that on what I have said about my own flubbs in the past, and what I have seen others do.

One thing is for sure. The rifle, load, impact velocity are defionitely not to blame. The odds of the bullet being the problem are for all practical purposes zero. That leaves the shooter. It sucks, but I sure know how it feels.

For what it's worth, I'll offer my take. With all the rifles I own, I tend to do almost all my hunting with a 338 WM loaded with 210 Partitions. It is deadly on everything from deer and antelope through big animals. I have never had it fail to shoot through any animal at any angle. However, on a trip to Montana, I had one inexplicable occurance. I killed an antelope at 200 yds, followed by a coyote running at about the same range on the first day. The second day in the timber, I took a shot at a standing 4 point mulie at 100 yds from a sitting position. Complete miss. The third day, I killed a big mulie in his bed at around 275. From this, I know the scope wasn't off. The only thing that I saw which could have contributed to the miss was that there were a few spindly evergreen twigs in front of the standing buck. They were relatively close to the deer and so thin, I didn't think they would be an issue, even if they made contact. A thorough search showed no blood at all, and there would have been plenty with the hold I used. The guide found one of the small twigs with a white nick on the side, right in line with the shot. I can only surmise that one of these twigs deflected the bullet completely away from the animal. This may have happened to you. I don't know that the partition is particularly susceptable to deflection, but this is the only one I have ever encountered while hunting, and I am amazed at the effect of such a light hit.

Here Ya go Wes:




Reloader

I had a similar incident with a 338/06. At 30 yards from a stand & rest, I missed or at least never found any blood, with a half day search. I went out & checked the scope. It was dead on @100. As someone said: "doo-doo occurs" but I wouldn't blame the caliber. I've killed bears with the 270 grand slam bullets going through them diagonally from end to end. That's a fine black bear round. You just got a bad hit. Not much consolation, but you filled out anyway... I didn't

As the other guys have said, I think just a bit of bad luck. I use the 210grNP @ 2750fps from my 338-06, only ever recovered one bullet from game up to bull elk & Zebra. I think the bullet works fine out to 2000fps or about 300yds in the 338-06, passed that & expansion gets iffy. Your shot, under 200yds, was within that 2000fps impact vel. but who knows, w/o the bear, it's all speculation. Possibly the 200grNBT or NAB. The 200grNorthFork would be an exc. choice as well.

in rereading your account of the shot, I think it is quite possible you may have hit it low in the leg that was near you. When the leg bone is struck, it makes quite a loud sound. In a deer or other light skinned game like that, you will usually find little pieces of bone where they were standing. Given a large bear's anatomy, it is a good chance no bone would fly out.

I am guessing this due to you saying it was the loudest impact you have ever heard. Whether it be the lower leg hit or a shot placed too far forward, the responsibility for the scuff up is the same. It still does not lie with the rifle, caliber, or bullet.

Pls don't flame for saying this but I have from day one felt that the .338 Fed round just does not have the powder capacity to push heavy bullets at meaningful speeds. Hell I feel that the case (if I remeber rightly it's a .308 based case) in my opinion does not have the capaicity to really push .30 cal bullets at good speeds, I have a rem pump .308 but it''s more a little toy than a real hunting gun if I want a good .30 cal hunting round then it strats with the 30/06. Any way I have been amazed at the interest shown in the .338 fed for that reason, it does not have the case cap to drive heavy .338 bullets hard, and it does not have the bullet weight to compensate like a 45/70 does etc.

I reckon if you had of been shooting the old .338 win mag and driving that 210 gr pill around 300 fps you would have your bear.

I think that the 338-06 is probably about the smallest case you want behind a .338 bullet

Each to there own etc. but there are so many nice .338 winnies on the market I am unsure why one would bother with the .338 federal. These are just my thoughts and they are possibly flawed

My "guess" is the Bear is Dead and relatively close to where it was shot. Locating Dead critters can be very exaspirating.

Excellent Rifle, fine Gun Shop, absolutely without-a-doubt an EXCELLENT Bullet at a Velocity that it will work just fine Killing Bears(or darn near anything). There is NOTHING to blame in the rifle/cartridge/bullet selection.

The Bears should have a good bit of "Fat" back on them by now, and it is amazing how well Bear Fat can plug holes. Plus, the Hair is quite adept at "retaining" a light trickle of Blood so that (occasionally) it takes awhile for some of it to make it to the ground.

The Bear "might" have gone in aways, went into the semi-circle mode, crossed back over just out of your alls sight and fell Dead.
-----

Not going to argue with anyone who feels different about the Bullet, but I really doubt any bone in the Bear "stopped" that Partition on Entry, especially at that Velocity. It is "probably" nicely Expanded against the far hide - inside the Dead Bear.

Wes, I've killed and seen way too many Black Bears killed with 30cal 165gr SPs & RN Hornadys from M14s to think the 210 Partition did anything wrong. Same for 35cal 200gr SPs and RN Hornadys from 358Wins. They all did great and so did your selection.

Yes, dead and close by is my guess.

quote:

Originally posted by Marc_Stokeld:
If the Partition hit the ball socket, I can not imagine it not getting into the chest cavity. It would be the very first one I have ever heard of doing this. The only partition I had shed both cores centered the ball joing on a bull moose. It was in the rib cage on the other side of the animal, which was larger than the ebar you ahot at. ANd this was with a 7mm bullet moving fairly slow. The odds of the partition not getting in the chest cavity due to bullet failure are for all practical purposes nil.

I've only heard of it once, but in grand style. One of my best hunting buddies shot an outsize eland a couple years back. He socked it right on the shoulder with a handloaded 260 gr NPT from his .375 H&H. The bullet destroyed the knob of the humerus, made burger of the shoulder, but went no further. The eland went down and came back up on three legs, facing the opposite direction. My pal socked the big bull on the other shoulder and precisely the same thing happened. The second bullet destroyed itself while destroying the knob of the other humerus. Apparently eland don't move well with only their rear legs to run on so the third shot sealed its fate after a brief scuffle. Was it the bullet's fault? Sorta, but more like running too soft a bullet too fast into the worst possible target. The third bullet did all that was asked of it so it seems an inch or two either would have sealed the deal with the first shot. Still, we chide him for hunting eland with varmint bullets...

This case seems the inverse, a premium bullet - though not an especially "hard" one - traveling on edge of too slow. The lower leg bone hit accounts for the reported details. If the neighbors report a three-legged bear next year maybe Wes will know for sure.

Rebore to .358 , 1-12 twist. You want those 275 gr Hornadys? I think it was posted. Kill some pigs and whitetail with the M-7 and then go hunt anything you want. Looks like you need more confidence in the gun. Good luck. Packy

Well, anyone of us that has hunted a lot knows that sometimes.. things happen badly that just shouldn't have...

But that is why they call it hunting..

other times, good luck happens the same way...

a shot kills an animal that shouldn't have at all....

ya gotta take the good with the bad...

I don't think the disappointment should be on the cartridge.

But I know what it's like to lose confidence in a gun/cartridge. Horrible feeling.

Definitelty hit some serious bone though, just in wrong place.

I tend to agree with Marc on a lower leg hit. There would no bone probably and even less blood.

I had a 210 NP out of my 338-06 actually stick in the lower leg bone of an elk. After going through the chest cavity. (Elk was bedded).

I don't recall a loud noise, but then the adrenalin was a pumping.

quote:

Originally posted by TXPO:
Next time my 2 gun battery is my 300 Win Mag (has accounted for both of my black bears) and my 375 H&H.......I ain't screwin' around no mo'!!!

Best idea I've heard all day.

I had a similar thing happen on an axis hunt
this past winter. My first loss of a game
animal. With a dead on hold with an adequate
cartridge/bullet/range, just like you. Never
found the animal. It was hit.

I'm a good shot who will not take an off
percentage shot. I think that makes it worse.

A humbling experience. A new experience.
You cannot control everything in the hunting
environment... a gainful experience.

Hope it never happens again. To either of us.
But it might.

good hunting, dxr


p.s. I think 1894mk2 is insightful here.
Probably what happened to me too, if not
a deflection.

While a terminal velocity of less than 2,000 fps will imped expansion to some extent, it will not deter penetration and may actually improve it considerably. More likely than not the bullet was deflected by something between the shooter and the bear. Was there any blood?

Doc Rogers took a 6 point bull elk with one shot out of a 14 inch barreled Contender pistol shooting a 165-grain Barns X-Bullet loaded in a 338 JDJ No 2 cartridge (which is based on the 444 Marlin case) at a range finder measured 427 yards. His guide bet him he couldn't even hit the elk. The bullet completely penetrated both shoulders and the elk dropped after about 30 seconds and a few wobbly steps.

If a 338 JDJ No 2 can do that out of a 14 inch barreled Contender pistol, a 338 Federal shooting a 210-grain Partition ought to be capable of taking a black bear at 176 yards out of a rifle length barrel. I also don't believe the cartridge or bullet, baring the unexplained bullet failures that happen from time to time, had anything to do with the bear getting away...Rusty.

quote:

Originally posted by TXPO:
6.5BR

The area of the grid search was rather large. We covered the whole area of the clear cut. When I say clear cut this was an older clear cut with small pines and very little underbrush. We covered at least 200-300 yards to the left and right of where we last saw the bear and approximately 500-700 yards deep. We actually went into the bush that wasn't cut on all sides. Like I said, we made a damned determined effort to find this bear. We searched the area twice the day after I shot it.
We could have missed it but given the circumstances, I don't think so.....someone should have come across it.

Well sir: You did your best darned effort, from start to finish, and I do commend the effort you put into searching for your animal. That is a true sportsman effort, and I feel your pain, and sorry things did not work out better for you. I wish I had an answer for you, but sometimes perhaps none is to be found.

That saying......things happen.......might apply. Better luck next time, seriously.

I know I HATE losing any animal.

MANY good 'theories' in the replies, Heck I remember reading a guy who lost either a deer or elk, cannot remember, but the story went like this 338 WIN MAG 250 Partition, and a solid chest hit, and the animal never was found, and the range was like 75 yds or something really close like that, so HEY you NEVER know where the path of ANY bullet goes if you don't recover the animal.

You SHOT well, the bullet may have done what was designed, BUT it JUST might for whatever reason, NEVER CUT through vitals, passing by them OR deflecting perhaps off heavy bone, OR as I have myself twice shooting each time about 150-200 yds, on deer, frontal hit, but bullet likely went LOW through chest NEVER hitting vitals, in fact someone seen a doe limping a week later on one episode. The other, NEVER saw that animal, few drops of blood at sight of hit, and some bone, I was hunting VERY late, (other was VERY early) each time poor light, and the crosshairs may have been too low, I THOUGHT I placed it well and the deer dropped right there, but the head was up, I did not want to make hamburger out of it, and expected it to die, wrong, (the other deer also dropped in tracks, only to dash off seconds later)......so that deer was NEVER seen, I LOOKED high and low, far and wide, NO blood anywhere.....and I was I thought at the time as upset as anyone can be losing an animal. No buzzards over the next couple of days, I think that deer had his upper leg broken out from under him.

YES, I TOO questioned my using a 243 on one, and a 7mm BR on the other (120gr....) yet even had I used a 7 WSM, the result due to shot placement would NOT have changed. Again, I remember that 338 magnum kill.

If you have no confidence, great idea above, kill some deer and hogs and regain it, but if that fails, take what makes you happy. Life is too short.

All that said, it is a GUESS as to if another caliber would have done a better job. I CAN say after dropping a nice wild hog at 240 yds this year with 243 and 85 x bullet, that penetration was sure, and the kill was instant. Shot placement, penetration, and expansion all came together.

IF for some reason that partition was not enough in penetration, PERHAPS a Barnes might have helped.....BUT adding velocity may or may not have added penetration as sometimes you get as much or more with less speed and expansion.....many variables in my estimation.

I cannot say the blame does NOT rest on your combo, BUT I think to criticize it, is jumping the 'forgive my verbage' GUN on what MAY have happened as it really is all speculation.

Keep in mind, a NICE elk was killed by a writer I believe Layne Simpson using the 338 Federal at about 300 yds, a tad more IIRC. Now he ALSO may have been using the X bullet, 185gr, BUT point is, he got his elk, no problem.

It is TOO easy, and done all too often, criticize a gun looking for blame as to what went wrong. The only RIGHT way to answer the question would be to have the recovered animal and do some CSI work.

I have faith in your shot being true, but a good aim, hit, and gun/load combo is never 100% guarantee of success unfortunately. It is 50/50 whether any other rifle would have produced a better outcome. Perhaps so, perhaps not, we will never know.

If somehow someone DOES find that bear, or kill it in the future and see a wound, THEN you may find your answer. I really hope you get it somehow, but if not, or until then, don't let it steal your sleep!

TXPO, It is a shame that you lost the bear, but because of that you can never really know what happened. If there was a small twig in the way, or a grasshopper in flight, deflection could have caused the bullet to impact off course of the intended mark. I personally suspect the bullet was too hard for the situation, and a 210 Nosler BT may have performed better, but neither you nor I can know that either! It is not a small club, those of us who have lost fine animals... We simply try harder next time, and eliminate as many variables as possible.

Test some bullets for expansion at those ranges.

Oh yes, the water jug test is VERY 'telling' of what bullets do at various ranges and speeds.

I would also endorse that idea to give you some peace of mind. You might for peace of mind compare to some other ctg/load combos just for fun. It is not science, black and white, but it seems relevant. If you get decent expansion you know that was not a problem, same for penetration.

quote:

If a 338 JDJ No 2 can do that out of a 14 inch barreled Contender pistol, a 338 Federal shooting a 210-grain Partition ought to be capable of taking a black bear at 176 yards out of a rifle length barrel. I also don't believe the cartridge or bullet, baring the unexplained bullet failures that happen from time to time, had anything to do with the bear getting away...Rusty.

You called your shot and heard it hit....but you don't know what you hit...and that's the problem. Bear/rock/stump...what?
That's a very fine bullet with a great reputation and was fired from an excellent cartridge at reasonable velocity. Had you hit where you wanted to, the bear would have died right there. Simple as that.
Like a good soldier, the .338fed is capable of great deeds, given great leadership. Don't give up on it.
Mid way between the .308 and the .358, IMO it's a perfect cartridge for that task. BT

I want to thank everyone for their insight and encouragement. I still believe that the round is perfectly suitable for hunting game the size of black bears and such. Yes, my confidence is shaken with this rifle, for several reasons which I will not get into. I somehow feel like it might actually be possessed or something!

Several have brought up the deflection theory.....I kinda doubt that is the case but I can't be 100% sure.....I don't recall there being anything between me and that bear. I had lunch yesterday with a close buddy of mine who is becomming a well known outdoor writer (Greg Rodriguez) and who talked me into rebarreling the rifle to 338 fed, suggested that I maybe hit a tad too high and got into that zone between the spine and vitals. I don't know, that bear was visibly and audibly hit VERY hard.

Who knows......I'm getting over it. I just wish I knew what happened........S*** HAPPENS!!!

I have an idea. You didnt hit him very well! When an animal is lost you can NOT be certain of where you hit it. Had you hit the bear where you intended the bear would have died on the spot. The caliber had nothing to do with it!It can happen to anyone.