I have had some very good shooting 30/06 rifles but my best 30/06 rifles were not as good as my best 308's. I have never had a 30/06 which would reliably shoot under 3/8 moa but have had a few 308's which would do so. Right now, I have two Model 70 match rifles. Each has barrels chambered for both cartridges. In one the 308 barrel is significantly better while in the other the 30/06 barrel has a slight edge. This tells me the barrel probably has as much to do with it as the cartridge. By the way, in a similar rifle, the 30/40 Krag shoots as well as either one; so does the 303 British. Regards, Bill.

Shootaway You must have a Phd in stirring the pot. Anybody that knows anything about guns knows you don't insult a 30-06 by mentioning any 300 magnum in the same paragraph. Well ok, you can say the magnum outperforms the 30-06 on the wrong end. Perhaps that would be useful to someone in training to be a cage fighter.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
The reason why the 308 Win is much more accurate is because it does not stress the bore as much.When shooting only a few 300 Win mag rounds near max you can look down you bore from the chamber end and see part of the throat disappear.That is steel you shot down the bore along with the bullet.Your are more likely to shoot steel down the bore with a 30/06 than a 308 Win.

Yes with a 30-06 you can use it on deer as a rifle and you can use the throat that is disappearing as birdshot and hunt birds with it.

Barrel stress ???

As example using a load of IMR 4350 on a 168 gr bullet on a 308 and 306 the difference is only 9 gr powder if loaded to the max

Based on the caloric value and adiabatic flame temperature of the load you should get about 3000 shots from either before the throat is shot out enough to have a effect on accuracy. ( for 4350 or equivalent)

( the primary contributor to throat erosion is the absolute flame temperature of the load)

This is not the reason why there is a difference between the precision between the two cartridges.

The difference lies in the factors that have an effect on the spatial ( ie specific ) distribution of pressure over time.

In the case of using the same bullet and same powder we see that that the web of the powder remains constant , if both are loaded to 100% density then the burn rate parameter would likely be in the same ball park and all we have different is the charge mass.

From this we can deduce that the larger charge mass ie 30-06 should give a smaller energy efficiency than the smaller charge 308 , however the pressure time curve is shifted and thus the curve for the 30-06 would be shifted to the Right relative to the 308.

This means the 30-06 would have a higher piezometric efficiency than the 308. This means the position of "burnt" in the 30-06 is closer to the muzzle than the 308 if both are shot from the same barrel length and therefore the intershot dispersion would be greater for the 30-06 than the 308

That would account for the difference in precision between the two.

I think you are entirely talking theoretical here.

Maybe its quantitatively discernible with a machine rest or in artillery at ranges well over a mile, but too many other confounding factors exist in shoulder arms for this to be meaningful.

Unless I’m way off base here, the quality of the individual barrel, the rifles bedding, the load itself, not to mention operator issues make this so minute that even corealis forces have more impact at short range with small arms than these efficiency issues.

crbutler--Are you talking about the North Corealis Forces or the South Corealis forces?

Bill,

I commend your heart rate, trigger pull, and nerve. When I was in my 20's I could shoot a 1" group with issue sights on a 1917 Enfield at 100 yds. From a hunting standpoint it is irrelevant. Target wise it is a big deal.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
I do not think I have ever heard of a rifle barrel shooting out in 50 rounds.

maybe Ackley's Eargesplitten loudenboomer?

A average shooter should "expect" at least two inches for 3 shots at 100 yards off a bench..

Others such as myself won't own a rifle that wont shoot an inch for 3 shots at 100 yard, if it won't then down the gun show road it will go or it will be sold on the internet and its accuracy will be declared..

Im an accuracy nut, I might have to shoot the head off a head bobbing turkey, or a buffalo or Lion in the eyeball..

That said in my youth I killed a lot of Mule deer and elk with a .270 win. that shot 4 inch 100 yard groups every time, before I knew better!!

All this doesn't count the few times when my half inch gun shot 4 inch groups or worse, and that happens to everyone with the exception of bald faced liars...

0.5" 3 shot group at 100 yards.

Repeated

quote:

maybe Ackley's Eargesplitten loudenboomer?

I stand corrected.

If you ad 100 bench style rifles in 308 and 100 in 30/06 the 308 would win with accuracy on average but we are talking very small differences.

On the othe rhand if had 1 bench gun build in 308 and 1 built in 30/06 you would not want to bet much money on which would be the most accurate.

Similar at 100 yards for the 222 Vs 6mm PPC.

There are too many factors involved in accuracy and the subject get entangled in technicalities.

A good barrel, and proper inletting has more to do with this subject than caliber, the rest is mostly BS...

Factory rifles seem to be more accurate than they were 40yrs ago. I have seen $500 hunting rifles with a good scope that would shoot around 1" lately. The ammo we have today has a lot to do with it. The 30-06 seems to be as accurate as any in a sporting weight rifle. You'll need a scope that doesn't have much parallax @100 yds and try different weight bullets to see what the rifle likes.
High end custom built rifles like my Gre-Tan 30-06 With a parallax adjustable scope will put 5 shots under 1/2" with hand loads. We now have some .308" hunting bullets that are about as accurate as match bullets.
Billy

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Not only will a 308 Win be much more accurate than a 30/06 but it's accuracy life is much longer.A 30/06 is a bit like a 300WM.Like a 300WM it is very accurate for the first 50 or so rounds then it all goes to shit.A 308 has phenomenal accuracy from the start much better than a 30/06 and it stays very accurate for over 1000 rds unless you toast the hell out of it.

I see your helmet is on too tight again.

I've had some 30-06's that won't shoot worth a flip.Who knows,maybe worn out tooling,machinist in training,but one thing for sure,it's way too good of a round not to have an accurate rifle for.I had a 270 Win I didn't use much,so I decided it would be a great candidate for a custom barrel.I sent it over to the great folks at Pac-Nor Barreling and let them make the change for me.Had them put on a 28" Sendero contour Stainless Steel Super Match Barrel. I tell you,I just seated my bullets .030 of the lands and powdered it with a load that shoots good in my other 30-06's and it turned out to be an instant shooter.That 28" barrel does gain some velocity.Puts it right up there with my 300WSM.