I am going into 28ga 3" category. Want to order Rizzini s/s shotgun.

As for 12 gauge, I would like to reload for 28 ga and want to use it at all. So I am interested in 3" loads (both lead and TSS).

So, where to get 28ga 3" loads pressure tested in USA? Precision reloading, which we used for 12 gauge, is not capable to test 28 3" loads.

Also, there are many recipes. Especially BPI and Hodgdon loads, which seems to me at least crazy. Do you thing those loads are actually real world pressure tested or it is just some computer simulation gimmick?

Thank you for any advice.

Jiri

I’ve reloaded 28 most of my life and never seen or heard of 28ga in 3”

The ammo has been out for quite some time now. My opinion is they are trying to increase the payload in steel and Bismuth, to push it for waterfowl hunters.? I may be wrong, but I don't think so.

I know of one company who makes semi/autos who may have been one of the first to chamber the shell. I have no idea how many others who may be doing the same w/ o/u shotguns in 28 gauge?

To me, who's been shooting 2 3/4" 28 gauge for many years, this is a solution to a problem that does not exist - as the old saying goes...

Just my opinion.

Good luck getting any pressure tested.!

I am in the process of ordering Rizzini RB550 Round Body Small Action De Luxe S/S shotgun. It will be chambered in 28ga 3".

Yes, I understand, for the most of the game 28ga is designed for, 2 3/4" is just perfect. But 3" allows for more payload and today (higher) working pressures. We have here 3" field lead loads 32 and 33 g (1 1/8 oz) at 400 m/s (1312 fps), which will easily mimic my over 100 years old worn out 16 gauge S/S.

Jiri

In the US, the usual suspects for send in testing are not set up for 3” 28 Ga pressure testing. If they have a pressure gun, it’s a matter of getting a barrel for it to do so, but frankly, while I have heard of it and seen the ammo occasionally, it’s a very rare bird, and the volume of use would make it very unlikely to be cost effective, so I don’t see that changing.

For what you are describing, a 1 Oz TSS load should be doable with a standard 2.75 chamber, and all bumping pressure and payload will do is make a light field gun kick like a mule and cause it to wear out prematurely.

I would think your best bet would be to talk with the folks at S&B and see if you could get someone there to do your testing. Since you are local there, it might go.

Me, admittedly I have all the fore mentioned gauge guns, and see no need to turn my 28 into a 16 trying to be a 12. If I was in your shoes, the 1 1/8 Oz loading is a standard load for the 12, and I would use that when I wanted that shot payload.

To me, the use of the 28 on larger birds is an expert’s game and means you are having some restrictions on what you are doing- closer shots and need to be more precise with your shooting (head shots). If a .410 with 1/2 Oz of shot kills US wild turkeys with TSS, 3/4-1 Oz of TSS at standard velocities will kill ducks and geese at ranges beyond usual 12 ga steel ranges. I have killed game farm pheasants with 28 ga skeet loads… just get closer to shoot and head shoot them.

TSS retains energy quite well. Lots of guys I know that use TSS use 3/4 Oz loads in 12 ga for ducks. No real need to go up there just to make it a doable waterfowl gun.

To be clear: I have O/U 12ga 3 1/2". I reload for it, from light loads to heavy (both lead and TSS up to 2 1/2 oz or so). I do also slug reloading.

So I am not going to make 28 gauge 12. Because my 16 gauge S/S is too old, I am looking for light nice modern S/S for upland hunting mostly. 3" is a bonus to be able easily mimic 16ga factory loads 1 1/8 oz we use here. Actually it will be a little bit faster. Gun is build from modern materials using CNC machining, so I don't have any concerns about wearing it out prematurely.

Also, As I shoot 12ga 3 1/2" heavy loads through O/U shotgun, I don't really care much about recoil.

28 gauge 1 oz TSS 1400 fps can be done in 2 3/4" hulls, but 3" hulls will allow you for example add buffer and make the same load pattern better.

Jiri

If someone wants to see pastels at 45 yards from a 3 in 28, pm me an enroll address.

I recommend it.

I find myself on the other end of the spectrum finding published loads for a 2 1/2" 28ga shooting a 5/8th oz load

TSS is a ballistic game changer in the shotgun world.

If one can or wants to afford the cost.

Why ? Why not just shoot something that thrives in a 3" load ? That's not likely gonna be a 28 gauge.

quote:

Originally posted by Jiri:
To be clear: I have O/U 12ga 3 1/2". I reload for it, from light loads to heavy (both lead and TSS up to 2 1/2 oz or so). I do also slug reloading.

So I am not going to make 28 gauge 12. Because my 16 gauge S/S is too old, I am looking for light nice modern S/S for upland hunting mostly. 3" is a bonus to be able easily mimic 16ga factory loads 1 1/8 oz we use here. Actually it will be a little bit faster. Gun is build from modern materials using CNC machining, so I don't have any concerns about wearing it out prematurely.

Also, As I shoot 12ga 3 1/2" heavy loads through O/U shotgun, I don't really care much about recoil.

28 gauge 1 oz TSS 1400 fps can be done in 2 3/4" hulls, but 3" hulls will allow you for example add buffer and make the same load pattern better.

Jiri

I would not count on it throwing a pattern worth a damn. You really can't make a 16 out of a 28 .

quote:

Originally posted by Eddie Southgate:
Why ? Why not just shoot something that thrives in a 3" load ? That's not likely gonna be a 28 gauge.

Why not? Here, in Europe, it is already for 7 years or so.

Factory loads with lead shot are 32 or 33 grams at 400 m/s. Better than standard 16 gauge loads. New shotguns are proofed at 1320 bar.

I don't see a reason why not to have light 28ga S/S, shooting those 100 years old loads for turtledoves or so, with possibility to fire 1 oz of TSS at 1400 fps or factory load 1 1/8 oz of lead at 1310 fps easily.

Jiri

quote:

Originally posted by Eddie Southgate:

quote:

Originally posted by Jiri:
To be clear: I have O/U 12ga 3 1/2". I reload for it, from light loads to heavy (both lead and TSS up to 2 1/2 oz or so). I do also slug reloading.

So I am not going to make 28 gauge 12. Because my 16 gauge S/S is too old, I am looking for light nice modern S/S for upland hunting mostly. 3" is a bonus to be able easily mimic 16ga factory loads 1 1/8 oz we use here. Actually it will be a little bit faster. Gun is build from modern materials using CNC machining, so I don't have any concerns about wearing it out prematurely.

Also, As I shoot 12ga 3 1/2" heavy loads through O/U shotgun, I don't really care much about recoil.

28 gauge 1 oz TSS 1400 fps can be done in 2 3/4" hulls, but 3" hulls will allow you for example add buffer and make the same load pattern better.

Jiri

I would not count on it throwing a pattern worth a damn. You really can't make a 16 out of a 28 .

https://www.pressreader.com/it...0916/281651078220721

For 1 1/8 oz #7 shot, I am not that impressed with those patterns.

That being said, I am sure that a 3" 28 can get closer to a 3" 20 ga gun in performance than one would expect. What is getting higher velocities is the allowance of higher pressures.

I am not that terribly knowledgeable on European bird shooting and the types of guns there. From what is sold here, it seems that the 28/76 is something that an Italian came up with (all the guns are made in Italy).

My experience has been that in general, the bigger the bore, the more even the pattern will be with any given shot load.

TSS will pattern tighter as it is not going to deform. Its also a lot denser, so it will retain penetration at greater ranges. I don't know about it being a "game changer", but rather it gives some more range. You can boost velocity without deforming the shot and it retains the velocity further.

That being said, its harder than lead and steel. It will damage your teeth if you bite a pellet and using smaller shot makes it easier to miss the pellet in your meat.

So your idea of a 28/76 to take game at even longer ranges and bigger birds than were traditionally hunted with a 28 is certainly doable. Its up to you if its worthwhile.

However, its not particularly popular on this side of the pond (which is where this thread started- reloading data and pressure testing...)

As to wearing out the gun, while your new CNC made modern steel gun may last longer than you, make no mistake, higher pressures and increased recoil DO wear a gun out sooner. If you shot equivalent loads in your 16, it would have been garbage long ago. Your gun's stock will be more lightly built than the 16's, and wood is wood- (plastic will wear out sooner as well, just differently than wood and depending on the polymer used)- it will wear and break sooner than a 28 ga gun that is fed a diet of standard velocity 3/4 oz loads.

The biggest users of the 28/76 in the US are mostly guys who are trying to hunt waterfowl with a very light gun. Strangely, the ones I talk to keep telling me that it recoils less than a 12... and that is why they use it.

To make it a practical waterfowl gun, you have to use TSS. Yes, you can load steel (and many do for areas with restrictions for nontoxic shot- while hunting light game birds) or lead in it, but you get more recoil than is good for that light of a frame gun.

You will be having substantially more recoil than a 12 or 20 but it will be easier to carry. By the way, the only 28/76's I have seen here are all autoloading guns. They are targeted at the ultra light duck hunting crowd here- so I have not seen a double 28 in 3" chambers- but it certainly isn't because it won't function, its market driven availability.

I get its a trade off. It will not pattern as well as the bigger bore with the same amount of identical shot, but it will pattern well enough to be effective at usual sporting ranges.

You will be spending more money to get what is an unusual gun.

Over here, finding ammo and components can be challenging for a standard 28. If it is more common over there, then your price might be lower and your availability be better... even reloading you still need hulls and proper sized wads.

So, you seem to be asking some questions (load data and pressure testing) which over here at least is very lacking.

I am sure that it can do much of what a hunter will ask of it, but at increased price and increased wear.

You will need to decide if the lack of support, the increased cost, and the increased wear is worth it to you for the decrease in weight (which is all you are gaining...)

Personally, if I was going to get a gun for what you are talking about, I think I would get a 20 ga gun.

You can do what you are talking about in making it longer range, and as a slightly more heavy gun (although still a lot lighter than the 12). It will be more durable, and its components and ammo are much more available (at least here.) I do have four 28's. They are fun to carry in the field and while I don't hunt wild pheasants (and definitely not waterfowl) with them, for everything short of that they work great, even using 2 3/4 inch 3/4 oz loads (and I can find 7/8 and 1 oz loads if I look hard enough, but have decided "why?"). My lightest 20 is maybe 1/4 pound heavier than the usual 28 (one of mine is a skeet gun that duplicates the 12 skeet gun... so I am not going to work off my "average" gun weight).

You don't need to convince me that you "need" a 28/76. You need to decide if its worthwhile yourself.

I know that I have brought enough new unusual stuff based off of a couple magazine articles and a slick campaign... so my thought that it is not worthwhile for me is not a straight luddite anything newfangled is bad attitude; for your uses it may be just what you want- but I don't see it becoming all that popular or replacing anything already out there.

Sure, bigger bore will always pattern better with the same amount of identical shot. But I can fine tune handloads or try different chokes to have well enough pattern for what I want to hunt with.

"As to wearing out the gun, while your new CNC made modern steel gun may last longer than you"

Exactly.

BTW Fiocchi Factory 28 3" ammo is declared for 860 bar

1oz TSS handloads 1400 fps for 2 3/4" are regarding to Hodgdon working at average pressure of 11,300 PSI (780 bar)

For the gun designed up to 1050 bar (and proofed at least 1320 bar), I have actually no concerns...

Jiri

Proofing is only for the barrel/chamber/action.

I’ve broke more than a few stocks using fully compliant ammo.

That being said, enjoy your new gun!

Will be selecting wood in Rizzini, Italy in two weeks or so. Hope I will be lucky ;-)

Jiri

BTW nice Rizzini factory tour video:
https://youtu.be/tTbG_pohpVw

quote:

Will be selecting wood in Rizzini, Italy in two weeks or so. Hope I will be lucky ;-)

I am sure it has far more to do. With how much one has to spend then luck

Grade 4 wood will be about 2k.

Your selection, if you listen to the stocker, is slightly more limited w a 28, because the density of the wood can affect the overall weight and balance w such a small bore.

quote:

Originally posted by Jiri:
Sure, bigger bore will always pattern better with the same amount of identical shot. But I can fine tune handloads or try different chokes to have well enough pattern for what I want to hunt with.

"As to wearing out the gun, while your new CNC made modern steel gun may last longer than you"

Exactly.

BTW Fiocchi Factory 28 3" ammo is declared for 860 bar

1oz TSS handloads 1400 fps for 2 3/4" are regarding to Hodgdon working at average pressure of 11,300 PSI (780 bar)

For the gun designed up to 1050 bar (and proofed at least 1320 bar), I have actually no concerns...

Jiri

I disagree with this. Look at all the tight patterns shot w 3 inch 1 5/8-2 plus Ounce loads. Those old rules are just that old. They predate modern full length shot cups, modern chokes, and even chambers. Is it easier with larger bore? Sometimes.

Crbutler is trying real hard to convince you, you do not need something while telling you, you do not need to convince him.

A 3 inch, 28 with an 1 ounce plus tungsten shot will pattern more than enough to kill a pheasant past 35 yards all day long. Been there and done that. It is not a restriction. My wife is very novice. She killed her first mallards, quail, and pheasant at the 35 yard mark with that load.

Europe has left lead in the dust. These firms know how to build a gun, including stocking it, to stand up to HP steel, Superior Proof.

I shot 5 stand w my new RFM-Upland Gun Company (the action is a Fausti) last week. I shot it w 3 inch Bismuth loads at 1330 fps 6s. Because it is a private range, I can, and wanted to.

Rizzini shoots there guns with heavy loads after stocking.

My Merkel and Greener has ate more Euro 3 inch hulls than I have ate venison cuts. I have stopped eating beef for venison years ago.

9/10 I’ll take a 12. Why? I like 12s. I took my 7.5 pound Merkel grouse hunting in the UP hunting 18 hours a day. I had no issues. I like 16s, I do not like 20s (but all my buddies do), and I like the 3 inch 28 with 7/8 to 1 1/2 (turkey) w tungsten based shot.

I have not shot game w lead in 4 years. I have not shot clays with lead all year.