im just getting into reloading and was trying to figure out what load data to go off. im using aa and super-x hulls and win primers and wads but i was going to use ADI powder, in the ADI reloading book it has data for aa hulls with win primers and Gualandi wads will these wads make any difference to load data?
Which leads us to my next Question of pressure signs in shotshells i know in rifle shells the primer flattens out but what are the signs in shotshells?

With a rifle you are dealing with much higher pressure. I believe you would get into the danger area with a shotgun long before primers start flattening out. Some people experiment with reloading components and others don't. One of the first things you will read when opening up a manual is never to substitute any component. Someone else might tell you that if you are using data near the SAAMI max for pressure it isn't safe but if you are using data for a low pressure load substituting one wad for another one designed to be used with the same payload won't hurt. Personally there are too many companies online selling commonly used powders that are compatible with AA and Claybuster (which you can substitute for AA) wads for me to take a chance with the other components. Best of luck.

SH

I have ALWAYS read to use only the shotshell components included in the recipe. No substitutions allowed.

Perhaps your experimentation will be sucessful. I would not chance it. But that's just me and I still have all my typing fingers intact. You may not be so lucky.

Yep, it's as SH says. Unlike a centrefire rifle, the pressures in a shotshell are nowhere near the yield point of the case materials. So there aren't any visible signs to go by. The only way of checking, is to fire the shell in a pressure test gun, under controlled conditions. Hence the admonition to stick to tested combinations.

The Lyman shotshell reloading manuals give test data on the effects of component substitution on pressure, and wads in particular can have a dramatic effect.

If you read the ADI manual a bit more carefully, you'll see loads for AA cases using Winchester wads [the correct combo]. Download the latest version from the ADI website, if you don't have it.

Gualandi wads are for use in straight-sided [Reiffenhauser style, e.g. Winchester 'Winner'] cases, which have a base wad separate to the shell body. Not easy to come by them, either. Winchester are readily available.

You can also load up a few shells and send them off to a lab or an individual who will pressure test the load. I am shooting a 410 load that was developed in that way using a military pull down powder that is very similar to 296 and 110 but fortunately about 1/2 the price. I also use Fiochi primers in place of W209 as I know they are not as hot as the Winchesters. I will not load high pressure heavy field loads and experiment. In fact I buy all of them as that is a very small part of my shooting.

Costomstox, You are either very knowledgeable about this subject and well beyond most of us.

Or you don't have a clue. I think you are playing with explosives. This is not something that should be reccomended to a newbee.

quote:

I think you are playing with explosives. This is not something that should be reccomended to a newbee.

I think Customstox falls into the "knowledgeable" category. I don't think anything he said is off-base or dangerous.

Alliant (for one) will pressure test shotgun shells. I think they require a sample of 5 shells. It's not free .... but it's not outrageously expensive either.

Anyone with a center fire background has a hard time swallowing the "do not substitute" mantra pounded into beginnning shotgunners. I mean, the laws of physics aren't suspended when you start loading shotshells.

That said, squirrily things do happen, and I'd certainly hesitate to go too far out on a limb. With Sambar being in Oz, sending the shells to Alliant for testing would be a little problematic, but the local powder manufacturers should be able to also accomodate him. Or, if he's serious, a strain gauge will allow him to do the testing himself, at a manageable cost. JMO, Dutch.

ddun,

The load I stated was pressure tested in a pressure gun (also as I stated) and my subsitute of a cooler primer is not playing with explosives, at least not to me. Falls into the common sense category. My suggestion was that you could create a load and have it pressure tested. As far as not having a clue, it may well apply to you. I have loaded over 3,000 of these hulls (Win AA HS) and shot them over the last year. It is a proven and tested load although it may not be in a published book.

The "coolest" or "softest" of 209 primers is the CCI, the cheddite, Fiocchi and Win 209 primers are for all intensive purposes identical, the Fedrals are the hottest. The CCI's are also the smallest in diameter, the Fiocchi 616 the largest. Hulls that have used or came with 616 primers will be loose with CCI's and maybe loose with W209's.
The issue with pressure spikes and primers/wads in shotshell reloading has to do with a few factors. In the wads the crush section or legs are of very different styles and yield strengths combined with the fast powders. There is also a lot of single based shotgun powders out there, like Solo 1250, the bulk density varies greatly compared to rifle powders. The fastest rifle powder is well slower than the slowest shotgun powder.

Winchester has 4 different types of hulls, compression formed-old AA, AA-HS a small capacity tapered interior multi piece, reifenhauser of chedditte manufacture and a polyformed hull. The Super-x may or may not be compression formed depending on the manufacture date and bore of the shells, cut one open to find out. If it is one piece it may safely be used with all AA data, if it's tapered and multi piece use AA-HS data, if it's reifenhauser design- straight walled seperate base wad use that style of data. I have a ton of load data for all of the above as published by ADI powder distributors Hogdon I'd be happy to pass some along.

There are combinations with Gulandi/Fiocchi wads in all of the above hulls as I recall.

Pressure signs are nill with shotguns for the most part. One must remeber that shotgun chambers are far weaker than rifles and the lock up of the action is very different.