Hello Lee,

My car is stock with one exception. The 599 came with primary and secondary catalytic converters. The secondary cats are easy replaced with a section of straight pipes. This is a mod that a couple of companies have offered recently. With Ferrari's, most folks don't make any modifications at all, and if they do, they tend to be things that can be easily reversed. For some reason, doing ANY modifications to these cars really affects their resale value. For me, I'm not too concerned with that as I bought the car to drive and enjoy, not to be a snob about and just have it sitting in my garage under a cover. It's not uncommon to find 20 or 30 year old Ferraris with less than 10,000 miles on them. Not mine! 32,000 miles at 8 years!!

So a couple of things to answer your questions. Removing the secondary cats adds approximately 50HP, or 34HP to the wheels. So yea, it has just a bit of an edge over stock. Rich is correct in that Ferrari won't allow head to head comps. Why? I suspect it has to do with them (the company) being a bunch of underhanded, lying, cheating, backstabbing SOBs! Anyone who's followed F1 racing for the past couple of decades knows this to be true about them. Win at all costs! No matter what!! Which by the way, they haven't done a very good job of lately as the Merc boys have eaten their lunch on the track ... and everyone else's for that matter!

I'm probably a bit unusual in my ownership of this car. I actually drive it. And I actually drive it on the track from time to time. The Cresson Motor Sports Ranch is less than 20 miles from my home. It's also not my only sport's car. I drive the Viper a fair amount as well. That car is pure analog with the only traction control being coordination between the left and primarily the right foot. They claim it's (02 Viper) a 3.9 sec. 0-60. Problem is, you can't keep it hooked up. As someone mentioned, traction control in most cars use a combination of power modulation and brakes. Not so in the Ferrari. No brakes involved at all. So what you get in the Race Mode is 100% power modulation to the individual rear wheels. It makes for a very easy car to drive well, and fast. Do I drive better than the other guys you mention that I come up against on the street? I don't know. But I'll say that 99% of the guys that challenge me are typically young boys in Mustangs. For some reason, the "blown" Subaru guys (you can tell them usually by the additional gauge mounted up through the top of their dash ... lol) always want to give it a go as well. I'll bet most of those guys have never been to a track, let alone driven on one ... with other cars in the mix!

As you know, horsepower is only one aspect to the equation. Weight being a major factor. The 599 is 600 pounds lighter than the Hellcat. Another is transmission shift times and gear ratios. That's the primary reason for moving away from manual cars and to the paddles, which for the record, I think is a mistake in terms of what is more engaging to drive, but hey, the current trend is performance, performance, performance, regardless of the driving experience quality. The 599 isn't an automatic that can be shifted manually as are the slush boxes. It's actually the exact same transmission as the 35 or so manual cars that were produced for the U.S., but with an F1 shifting system used for hydro/electrically minimizing shift times. In the "SuperFast F1" mode that becomes available in excess of 5,000 RPMs, shift times are 85 miliseconds. It's quite amazing to experience at full throttle and 8,400 RPMs!! Shift is instantaneous and feels like a slap to the back of the head with a 2x4! Shifting drops the revs from 8,400RPMs to approximately 6,000RPMs making it a challenge to keep up and not bounce the limiter even with paddles as you go through the first 3 gears. Put it in Sport Mode and it will shift for you right on the limiter every time!!

As for 1/4 mile times, the Ferrari really isn't a dragster, although it holds its own for the most part. And for the little street skirmishes, who the hell runs a full 1/4 mile? Most are settled in the 0-60 sprint, red light to red light or shorter, that being one of the main reasons that little measuring stick is so important in the performance car world. For all it's power, Road and Track tested the Hellcat to a 3.6 second 0-60 time with the automatic (3.9 for the manual). R&T tested the Mustang Cobra to a 3.5. Car and Driver tested the 599 to a 3.2 (Couldn't find a test by R&T). Interestingly enough, Ferrari's numbers themselves (3.7 sec.) have been bested by every reliable review that has tested the car with the goofball Jeramy Clarkson of Top Gear even managing a 3.5 with it. Some of that has to do with Ferrari not openly publishing the launch control work around that significantly shortens the acceleration time. BTW, R&T tested the new Z06 to a 3.0!! I haven't had a new Corvette challenge me. Probably not enough of them around at this point. I have run them on the track however and there they don't stand a chance. Not to mention that they suffer from a too small transmission heat exchanger and get an overheat warning after 3 to 4 laps. I understand Corvette was to correct this for 2015 but I can't confirm. Regardless, for the performance and style per dollar spent, the new Corvette would be hard to beat. I've owned 2 Vettes in the past, back when I was flying fighters in the Navy. Loved both of those cars.

Anyway, THIS is MUCH more TALK than I've ever done in regards to my car. As I said, citing numbers absent actual rubber on the tarmac is high school boys at lunch under the smoking tree!

A little entertainment for you guys from the track in my 599:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhjXzsp5d70

There are a lot of cars capable of similar performance but it is the tires they wear and the drivers launch ability that separates the winner from the losers.

I have never ran my C6 in the 1/4 mile but know plenty of people with identical set ups (670 hp at the crank and car weighs 3,150) that run 10.7 - 10.8. Most of these runs are on cars equipped with Nitto or other street slicks. These same guys will be the first to tell you these tires are terrible in the handling department. Also, the better you hook up out of the hole the more you tend to break things. Everything is a trade off.
Traction is the key on any car capable of running the quarter under 12.5. Even with the almost 13 inch wide rear tires on my Grand Sport I can smoke them at will at lower speeds. And this is at 7,000 feet where 20% horse power is lost.

No doubt about it, weight-wise, the Hellcat is a pig! All of this reminds me of the sixties/ seventies when the horsepower wars were being waged and it seemed like the cars were also getting bigger and heavier, the mustang comes to mind. For many years a friend of mine was the owner of Exotic Coachworks Unlimited here in Houston, he specialized in Ferrari restoration and collision repair. I worked at his shop some in my spare time while he did the body work on one of my muscle cars. About that time Ferrari started up a racing program for Ferrari owners I think it started with the 348 series and then went to the 355's and man, it would really hurt your feelings to see the carnage that rolled into his shop after a race! I have to say though, I like to see a guy put his money where his mouth is, and really run those cars instead of just talking shit about how fast it is supposed to be! It truly is amazing how far technology has come in the last ten years, some of those fart-piped Subaru's are stupid fast. I am frequently challenged on the street also, by all manner of characters, but especially Mustangs and Z06's, but it is so crowded here and the streets are full of texting idiots that playing stop lite Bandit is just to damn risky! Not at all like the old days when all challengers were taken on at the red light! Now, if they persist, I ask them to show up on Friday night at Houston Raceway Park , and like you say, many find out that there is more to racing than stabbing the go pedal. Thanks for the reply and the info on your car, nice to know you air it out on occasion! Lee.

I guess the farm truck needs to be fishing in your neighborhood.

Todd,

I was not impressed with the track video...the white car kicked your butt until he made a mistake..which anyone can do regardless of their talent or experience...happens in NASCAR every week. Clearly, the white car was the better of the two. Not sure of the make though. Lets not forget about the debut of the coming ZR-1 mid-engine supercharged V8. The 599 is a nice car for sure...but for the money it better be.

would it be well mannered to suggest you should have held out for the GTO version?

Naaaaah, you are living well enough as it is...

Rich

Yea, what's another 50 grand on top of the first 170. Like I said...for that kind of money the car better be a performer with the Hellcat at 65K and the 2015 Z06 at 95K. The new ZR-1 is supposed to be a base of 150K...but there is going to be a tremendous amount of engineering costs going into this vette.

BTW Todd, thanks for educating us on the exotics...we would never know otherwise.

Hey Butch, you talk like a player... What are YOU racing?

I've got a bad ass Mitsubishi Lancer. I appreciate nice automobiles and have had several Porsche's,muscle cars, and race cars. Been in the auto business for over 40yrs. A car has become a means of transportation and the truck for carrying trash and my shooting gear for matches. My wife buys her own and if it makes her happy, I'm happy. Yeah, she used to have a 64 Corvette convertible with a full Guldstrand suspension and an old modified 5.7. Yes, it had a full rollcage.
We both still appreciate them, but it is not our main interest at this time.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
I guess the farm truck needs to be fishing in your neighborhood.

That old Farm Truck is a screamer isn't it!! Can you imagine how much fun it would be to drive that old thing around and kick everyone's unsuspecting butt!

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
would it be well mannered to suggest you should have held out for the GTO version?

Naaaaah, you are living well enough as it is...

Rich

Rich,

You know they "supposedly" only made 599 of the GTO versions? They are hard to find ... and insanely expensive. If you listen to the 599 GTO owners, they'll try to convince you it's nothing short of the second coming! lol. However, take a look at the current prices on the GTO. Woodrow's estimate of an extra $50K for the GTO is missing a 0, or a bit more. Current 599 GTO's are going for $750,000!! Easily 1/2 million more than even the lowest mileage, best optioned GTB. OUCH! The 599 GTB like mine are great bargains on today's market as they are approaching the bottom of their depreciation curve and there are usually 50 or so on the market at any time, making for a buyer's market. With only 135 of the 599 GTOs produced being imported to the U.S., there is usually never more than one or two up for sale at any time, placing them squarely in the "Seller's Market" category. I love cars but if I were going to spend that type of money one one, I don't think the GTO is where I'd sink the cash.

Woodrow, you do know the track video ISN"T racing ... right? Jut some spirited gentlemanly driving and having fun without swapping paint. Notice no one is drafting and pressing hard to go around? And you did notice that the white car that was "kicking my butt" was a Ferrari 458 that very well SHOULD be able to kick a 599's butt, right? The 458 has a little better than 1.5 second edge on the Fiorano test track! 458 Italia, which is a true sports car, does the track in 1:25.00 and the 599 GTB, which is a true GT, does the same circuit in 1:26.50.

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/fiorano.html

But you might also notice that before he was "kicking my butt", from about 1/2 way into the video, you can see him approximately 1/4 mile or more in front of me since we all made staggered starts and he was about 6 cars ahead of me to start the session. I suppose chasing him down and hanging on his tail until he made a mistake is called "kicking my butt". But, we weren't racing!!

But, I predicted those types of comments in my first post!


Lee, man I can only imagine the carnage at that repair shop! And the crying knowing there isn't any insurance to cover the rebuilds! I like the driving we do on the Cresson track, as is the case at most if not all tracks outside of sanctioned racing. No passing except on the 4 straight aways and everyone stays a respectable distance from each other into and out of the corners. You get to have some fun performing your car but without trying to extract 9/10th's or more out of it. You sound like a fellow I'd enjoy having a beer and shooting the shit with!

Todd, I knew it was not an actual head to head race....which is why I was not impressed. Seeing these exotics really stretching the legs would get my attention though. The article I read on the upcoming ZR-1 sounds pretty promising if GM pulls it off....but GM has on/off spoke about the mid engine vette for 40 years...so we shall see. Wondering how a mid engine auto changes up the handling ability versus front or rear engine abilities.

Old pic of the old Vette. This was ice racing in about 1978 or 1979. I didn't really like the car because it had manual steering. Wife said it wasn't a problem, just steer with the gas pedal.

Todd,

agreed. I had to work my butt off to afford a clean XK-8 convertible and a trip to Zim the same year.

It would not surprise me to see the GTO's hit a million by end of next year.

A SW dealer has a $7 (advertised asking price) package consisting of an Enzo, an F-50, and a 599 GTO.

I get the DuPont Registry just to look at all the cars...

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:


I eat Hellcats and Cobras for breakfast, lunch, and dinner on a regular basis!

for more realistic 599 capability comparisons, its better for people to take look at Nurbugring test track times with professionals behind the wheel
who can realistically extract the most out of manufacturers cars;

https://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/

Whoaaa.what a telling story here. Thanks for this data...very nice, very informative with hard data.

Been lurking for a while. Very interesting topic.

About a week ago I was privileged to be given a ride in a 10 second CUMMINS powered '91 short bed. My life will never be the same.

There are some wicked diesels out there too. I don't think they could hold a candle on a road course to any of the above mentioned cars, unless it involved a 45,000LB trailer.

Andy B