Greetings all,

Somewhat complicated situation but I am wondering if anyone has ever loaded 45 ACP with BP and shot any appreciable amount with it? How badly does it foul up the gun, for instance? Is it possible to get, say, 200 shots before cleaning is necessary?

I'm trying to do some research for a friend in a 3rd world country (and no, not California!) who cannot get smokeless powder with regularity or quality. Planning on using 200-230 gr cast lead bullets. I'll be loading up and doing my own experimenting this summer, but thought I'd ask the group here first.

Thanks all!

Mark

I doubt very much you could get anywhere near 200 rounds before cleaning. A long time ago I experimated with FFFG Goex in .45 Colt single action revolvers and I got to tell you the gun got very dirty, sticky kind of like with tar almost. The .45 ACP may not have the capacity for the volume of black powder needed unlike the .45 Colt which was originally a black powder cartridge.
Rodney.

Lube your bullets with SPG or some other BP lube. It will work much better than lubes for smoleless. I would use fffg or even ffffg to get enough velocity to talk about. The ACP is a fairly small case, so not nuch powder room.

Rodney is right, things will gum up pretty quickly. One or two mags should do fine. If he needs more carry a second gun or get a BIG knife!

Keith

Since hand guns are banned in third world countrys ! why are you trying to possible screw up your gun with such a worthless indever !

If you can, pick up a copy of the May/June 2009 American Handgunner Magazine. On page 74 there is an article covering this very thing.
To put it in the "Readers Digest" format, you can do it but you will end up with a very low powered single shot .45 pistol.
If you cannot find the article let me know and I will send it to you.

BP itself is a looser proposition in an auto for sure. Not much better in a revolver after a few cylinders full. Too much fouling to deal with.

Do they have access to some BP substitutes perhaps?
I've used American Pioneer in 45acp and it works fine. Betw 75 & 100 rds each out of a Colt auto and a Webley MkI (cut to acp) and no fouling problems.
Functions the Colt w/o any problems too.
Never tried any of the others that are around.

quote:

Originally posted by Concho42:
Since hand guns are banned in third world countrys ! why are you trying to possible screw up your gun with such a worthless indever !

This is not the place to get into an argument, but you are slightly mistaken. That is akin to saying that full auto weapons are banned here in the USA, yet I bet +90% of the people here qualify to own one if they have the proper amount of money and inclination. Same thing to some degree in the rest of the world too.

Factory rounds are available, that is not the issue so nothing wrong with carrying with real bullets but the issue is cost and quantity. A round can cost upwards (way upwards!) of $3 a pop and there is a posession limit too (I think it is 50 rds but not sure). Reloading is permitted but the issue is components are not really imported. However, BP is plentiful and relatively cheap due to the quantity of muzzleloaders in the country. Anyway, those are the issues. When it warms up here I'll load up a few different rounds and see how they do. All I'm looking for is something for cheap target practice for them, so I'll see if 600 fps with a 200 gr slug is obtainable.

I'll see if I can get something to cycle, then how many shots before it stops!

Congomike, I have not seen that article. If you could PM me a link I'd appreciate it, or let me know and I'll send you an email addy to send it to.

Thanks to all so far!

Mark

Mark,
here's the answer -- it CAN be made to work, and in a pinch, its better than nothing, but it won't work WELL. Are 7.62x39 ROUNDS available? it may be easier to scavenge powder. Better still, 7.62x25 rounds, if handy, can be rendered for powder. shotgun shells?

if it was for me, I would find someone with a contender in 45 (anything, just load to the same capacty) and experiement

i doubt it would run 2 clips being fouling .. and he would have to clean QUICKLY as it would "frost" due to the corrosion that happens on improperly maintained BP guns

it would be far better to have under powered smokeless loads than the same in BP

I realize this may not be possible, but his real solution is not trying to use blackpowder in a 45ACP in a 1911 type pistol but getting a large case revolver in .44 Mag or .45 Long colt. A Ruger SBH or BH would be perfect.

The other part -- besides being REALLY DIRTY, is that petroleum based lubricants and BP soot don't mix at all.

In a BP REVOLVER, I get 12/18 shots before I need to partially disassemble and clean things up a bit. And this is a gun designed for BP, and lubed with non-petro based.

In all fairness, the metallic cartridge would be cleaner than percussion cap. But you're unlocking a breech, and blowing gas into the works.

I've loaded 44 mag. with BP. Dirty, dirty, dirty. Stainless Ruger SBH -- needs to be entirely disassembled and cleaned.

It would be better than throwing rocks,thats for damn sure.

There is no doubting that the cartridge would be an efficient terminal killer.

After all the British blackpowder "450 Revolver" is effectively in size a 45 ACP with a lead 225 grain bullet and similar case CAPACITY.

(Yes, I know it is shorter but don't forget the capacity advantage given by the balloon head case and hollow base bullet on the 450 Revolver).

But my concern would be if the powder has the right properties to actually work the action. So it would be OK in a S & W or Colt M1917 that is certain.

But in a pistol for reliable cycling? I think that the "push back" would be the wrong "speed" (if that makes sense) to work the slide or link.

quote:

Originally posted by jb:
It would be better than throwing rocks,thats for damn sure.

I somehow doubt that.

Russ...

That American Handgunner magazine article was useless. He used the wrong powder, wrong bullets, and not enough powder to get it to work. There are quite a few fellows using black powder in 1911 pistols to shoot wild bunch matches in SASS. If you use bullets cast of soft lead, that carry enough black powder specific lube and load with REAL powder, not subs, with proper compression, a 1911 will most certainly run well with a 12# or 14# spring (depending on bullet weight). They will also run well with loads of Trailboss powder, but have a little less power than if loaded with black powder.

The SASS comment is interesting as the 45 ACP was never a black powder cartridge, and I am not sure why anyone would shoot it in a Wild Bunch match.

Just 'cos it's fun. And you can.