quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Little:
Nice rifle. I wished the people making it would have gone the extra step to index the rings screws correctly; or better yet fabricate something a little more refined to match the rest of the rifle.

I always time all visible screw slots, for several reasons.

Looks better.
Indication of maker expertise and attention to detail.
Looks better.
Easy to check for loosening screws.
And did I mention that it looks better?(grin)
Regards, Joe

+1 here.

I don't like Talley's for single shots. I think they are ugly, but to each their own.

The EAW & Recknagel type pivot mounts are good, especially combined with the use of a rail mount scope, but if they will work correctly I think something like Joseph Smithson's mount is perfect.

Smithson is another gun maker who has been very good about answering my rookie questions.

SDH,

I think after the gallery of comments on screw timing your comments should have been something like "It's my own personal rifle, and I built it quite a few years ago, but you are right I need to time the screws on those Talleys".

Or "You know it takes a long time to time screws on a scope mount, and since it is my personal rifle I thought it would be better to spend my time on the stock making projects I have for people".

Or even "You know I am a much better stock maker than a machinist, and I really need to get that looked at".

Or name your own reason, instead you throw insults.

Lots of people consult out to other folks when they have a problem to solve and they can't quite get it figured out.

I think it is admirable that Glenn would be humble enough to seek advice from someone like Hagn that has a lifetime building single shot rifles.

It's always a difficult situation when someone posts a blatant lie about a person, product or situation on an internet forum. If one takes the high road and ignores the lie/s then many will believe there is truth in the accusation due to non-rebuttal. If, however one chooses to respond, then there is potential to be seen as defensive. The fact that neither option is particularly palatable is what makes such accusations much more offensive. And when the accuser lacks the courtesy or manners to pick up any phone and dial a US free phone number to at least speak to the "about to be slandered party" first, in an attempt to ascertain plausibility, before deciding to post the "stories", then the author of the accusation obviously has "unresolved private issues".

What's the legality of pistols at dawn in MT these days?

SDH, Bear in mind that there are copies of dated CAD drawings that clearly show what was designed when. And that sometimes the shit that you have smeared so liberally all over your face will not come off so easily once it has dried.

I think it best that you ring Martin back and ask him clearly exactly what the one very small design change he suggested was. Here's a little clue, it has to do with how much firing pin protrusion is necessary in a SS.

Before that shit dries hard.

Joe,
I believe I saw 3 or 4 quite different versions of Miller Falling block rifles in his workshop. One of which was definitely designed by Cyle well after his father and De hass had passed. Cyle was the design engineer at Dakota Arms for many years and as an example of his work, designed the slapper which fixed the Model 10s propensity to break firing pins. If you sit down a speak with him for a few hours or days, as I have, you will understand that he knows far more than most when it comes to single shot mechanical design. It was in this context I was referring to his expertise.

Regards
Glenn

enough?

Glenn you can own all the pistols you want, all the semi-auto rifles, and all the full auto rifles and silencers you want.

On the full Auto stuff you'll have to get a license for that.

On the silencers you'll have to pay a $200 tax on them.

Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, South Dakota, North Dakota are all very free and still happily right wing. Montana slips a little bit left every year, the move ins from California are increasing for all Western states though.

Wyoming has no income tax.

Montana has no sales tax.

For the best of both worlds live in Montana and open your business in Wyoming. A lot of people that live in Northern Wyoming shop in Billlings Montana.

Wyoming has wilderness area elk units that only residents can access, but Montana has way more elk, so it is kind of a wash.

Antelope hunting in Wyoming is the best.

Whitetails are better in Montana and Mule deer in Wyoming.

Sheep and Goats are better in Montana, though MOntana gives fewer tags for sheep than Wyoming does most years.

Way more black bears in Montana.

Way more moose in Wyoming.

Both have hot and cold running wolves and grizzly bears. The wolves you can hunt the bears you can't.

Free range bison are easier in Wyoming, but easiest in South Dakota in Custer State Park.

You'll want to start the points programs for Wyoming, MOntana, Washington State, Colorado, Nevada, Utah and Arizona for sheep.


A lot of guys hunt their home state and 2 or 3 others. South Dakota isn't bad, I know they have an excellent set up for small businesses, but not sure if Wyoming or Montanas are better.

Housing prices in the Dakotas, Wyoming and Montana is very high right now thanks to a booming oil exploration market.

Small towns away from the oil boom will be much cheaper.

Wyoming has the highest percentage of public land in the Northern Rockies, BUT! Montana is a much bigger state, and a lot of Wyoming's public land is checker boarded and hard to access.

quote:

Originally posted by soroka:
Joe,
I believe I saw 3 or 4 quite different versions of Miller Falling block rifles in his workshop. One of which was definitely designed by Cyle well after his father and De hass had passed. Cyle was the design engineer at Dakota Arms for many years and as an example of his work, designed the slapper which fixed the Model 10s propensity to break firing pins. If you sit down a speak with him for a few hours or days, as I have, you will understand that he knows far more than most when it comes to single shot mechanical design. It was in this context I was referring to his expertise.
Regards, Glenn

Glenn, as I said, I've actually seen only one of Cyle's rifles up close and personal. It was a 225 Win walking varminter with very nice finish and attractive overall outer looks. It was NOT a Dakota product, but rather a product of Cyle's individual work, supposedly. My shooting buddy Richard K ordered it from Cyle about 10 yrs ago.

The rifle was impeccably turned out but apparently designed and assembled by a TOTAL ignoramus! The forearm was butted up hard against the front of the receiver and there were 2, count 'em, TWO bedding blocks screwed to the barrel! One block was a standard type used as a forearm mounting base and the other was used as a sling swivel mounting base. Both were screwed firmly to both the barrel AND the forearm!

Pretty stupid.

No, on second thought, it was EXTREMELY stupid!

Especially from someone who was supposedly tutored by such knowledgeable men as Frank de Haas and Cyle's own father.

Apparently the boy didn't even shoot the rifle before sending it out to Richard. OF COURSE it strung all shots vertically!

So you see, I have two reasons for not respecting Cyle's abilities and good sense. 1)his miserable efforts at trying to make an accurate rifle and 2)his association with such a low-down dishonest organization as Dakota, an organization that IMO had alreasy cheated Pete Grisel out of his share of the business.

Like I said, you might wanta choose a different role model for your future inquiries. You won't get many (if any) kudos for using Cyle's name!

Just out of curiousity, when you said Cyle designed the M10's slapper, do you mean he used a vertically-hung slapper like the Ruger? If so, then IMO it's merely a copy and not a real 'design'. But that's just my opinion and I have a somewhat narrow definition of 'design' as it applies to engineering.

Bottom line with me is that Cyle failed to produce an accurate rifle even when using a proven match-winning action, so I don't think I'll be consulting him any time soon. Besides, the Miller action is ugly (grin).
Regards, Joe

I wish I had ever even received my ugly Miller rifle from Dakota. They kept my deposit, but never sent me ANYTHING for it.

So, I don't ever consider buying any of their products now.

Luckily it wasn't a LARGE deposit, so it didn't cost too much to learn whether I wanted to trust them with anything else.

your diagnosis/opinion of the Miller is quite at odds with its distinguished record in Schuetzen Matches the past 20 years.

If you aren't shooting a Miller-actioned rifle in Schuetzen you aren't making the Top Ten very often. The Series II, starting at SN:201 is an improved version with the Neal Rice (iirc) trigger.

Try checking it's record in competition on the ISSA website.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
your diagnosis/opinion of the Miller is quite at odds with its distinguished record in Schuetzen Matches the past 20 years.

If you aren't shooting a Miller-actioned rifle in Schuetzen you aren't making the Top Ten very often. The Series II, starting at SN:201 is an improved version with the Neal Rice (iirc) trigger.

Try checking it's record in competition on the ISSA website.

Rich

Hope you're not referencing me (grin). My opinion as expressed above was aimed specifically at Cyle Miller's performance, not the ugly action. I'm QUITE well aware that it's the winningest Schuetzen action in modern history but IMO it's still kinda ugly.

BTW whenever you patronize the Etna Green forum, please keep in mind that at least one of those mental giants over there still says that a takedown Stevens 44 1/2 can win a national record! The ISSA guys, OTOH, seem like they have good sense(grin).

If I wuz gonna get deeper into match shooting, I'd be inclined to build a Farrow. Perhaps even one of the new (gasp!) stainless-steel ones! I had an original Farrow and it was an inspiration!
Regards, Joe

Ooooook...I'm way behind on this thread. But my vote goes for a really elegant, simple, strong-as-possible side-lever falling block action.

Heck we have the Ruger No.1 and both Low and High Wall (modern) Winchester/Brownings.

Both are great actions and will handle almost anything you can shoot and survive.

They both need DST or SST triggers to be perfect.

All those multi thousand $ actions are neat but really bring nothing to the table that is "new".
(some are really butt ugly but that's another topic)

While not thought of as a single shot, the solid bottom bolt action FN action is also a wonderful (and rare) single shot action.

I believe my "Britishified" No. 1 in 300 H&H is IMHO, is as pretty as they come. (started life as a 1B 30-06)



The factory british wannabe African is also very nice.

MOA,

FWIW Steve Earle's Wesson #1 single-shot goes for $1,500. I think Bailey Bradshaw's is really nice and goes for about the same price, too. So there's some sort of market out there for actions at that price.

I like the idea of a break-open with either a toplever or side-lever. I really like the Merkel stalking rifle's look, for instance. Stephen Grant side-lever shotgun actions I think are interesting and look great. Might be too tough to make this style accurate without being too thick and heavy, though (i.e. EAB 97 or HandiRifle). I also don't care for switch-barrels, but I DO like the compactness of being able to take down my break-open guns.

HTH,
Steve

I would like to see Ruger make a takedown No 1 with interchangeable barrels. If anyone can do it at a reasonable price, Ruger can.