Hey folks, I'm from the USA and I understand the laws regarding "short barreled rifles". Meaning one can take a pistol and make it a rifle with a 16"+ barrel, but you cant take a rifle and make it a pistol, or cant put a pistol barrel on a rifle stocked frame because then you have an SBR.

That said, when it comes to T/C frames [contender, G2, Encore], are the serial numbers registered somewhere declaring it as either rifle or pistol? Or does it matter?

For example, looking to build myself a old G1 kit.. I'm looking at bare frames online Gunbroker and such, how do I know if the frame is pistol or rifle? Or is that something that is declared when I run the paperwork at my local FFL?

Thanks

I am not a lawyer! It is my understanding it is legal to go either way with a T/C. You can not put together parts in an illegal manner, but you can own what parts you want and put them together in a legal manner.

As I remember the story: ATF gave T/C a hard time over their .410s. A short barreled shot gun was "smooth bore", and T/Cs were not smooth. T/C "went along" and stopped making the .410s. Then the ATF said you could not own parts that could be put together in an illegal manner (rifle stock and a short barrel) even if you could put the parts together in a legal manner and NEVER put them together in an illegal manner. T/C said "enough" and went to court and won at USSC.

Justice Sandra Day O'Connor had to explain to the other learned people the difference between rimfire and centerfire.

Edit: I bought my T/C Contender frame as a factory bare frame, no barrel.

So I own multiple Contenders and Encores and am definitely NOT a lawyer... You can buy a T/C frame as a pistol or as a rifle - it is recorded that way on the ATF paperwork.

The way it was explained to me many years ago is this:

A T/C frame bought as a rifle cannot be changed over to a pistol without involving ATF paperwork to change the designated type from rifle to pistol otherwise it would become an illegal short barreled rifle.

A T/C frame purchased as a pistol however, can be changed over to be a rifle without issue as it cannot be a short barreled rifle since it is a pistol...

Lesson to be learned - always purchase the frame as a pistol and you are safe...

I have no idea if this pistol stock crap the Dems are pushing would have any bearing in the future...

This was settled y the supreme court.

Put a stock on it and a 16+ inch barrel it is a rifle.

Put pistol grips on it, it is a pistol.

Put a stock on it and a barrel under 16 inches it is a SBR.

This could all change there are several court cases moving ahead.

That could end this foolishness.

Clear as stump water, ain't it?

So, I will put my .03 in..inflation, you know...I worked in gunshops and had a FFL for over 45 years. This question came up many times. Kind of like the IRS, ask 10 different agents what the rules are and you will get 24 different answers.
I have owned Contenders, both rifle and pistol, and never worried about which barrel went on which receiver, as long as it wasn't a >16" barrel with a rifle stock on the frame.
There are approx. 400+ million firearms in the U.S. There are approx. 2600 ATF agents that work enforcement. I really don't think they will really care if you have Contenders and switch the frames back and forth from rifle to pistol configuration, as long as it is not an illegal version, such as previously mentioned pistol barrel on rifle stocked frame.
In one shop I worked in a gent brought in a "pistol" that was given to him for payment for work he did. It was a single shot Remington .22 rifle that someone had converted to a pistol by chopping barrel to 8" and cutting stock behind grip. We called our local ATF agent, he talked to the gent and had him leave the gun with us. The agent told us to remove bolt, tape it to the gun and they would come and pick it up. That was, I think around 1974. In 1983, when the shop closed, it was still sitting on the file cabinet in the back office waiting to be picked up.
My point is, it is a gray area, and I really don't think the ATF would really spend a lot of time pursuing anybody who does have multiple barrels, stocks, grips, etc. AS p dog shooter has said, the Supreme Court has addressed this. Again, just my opinion.

when you buy a contender or encore frame from a FFL, on the 4473 there are 2 boxes for "long gun", "handgun", or "other firearm". Sold as "other firearm"(because it is a frame only) you can do as you please with it, put a buttstock and a 16" or longer barrel on it or put grips on it and use it as a handgun. Just don't put the buttstock on it and barrel less than 16".Part of the background check with NICS asks this question. A frame of any kind or type is given the same consideration by NICS as a handgun, if under 21 no sale approved. There is a minimum OAL measurement, too. Less than 26", even though it has a buttstock and a barrel 16"+, is a class 3.

To add a few flies to the ointment think about this...originally the T/C Contender was in pistol form only. Rifle length barrels and stocks came many years later. So, how does one go about finding out if a Contender frame/firearm was "pre" rifle/pistol and had that indicated on the 4473, or strictly a pistol when sold originally? How about if you bought one used, especially if it had gone through several owners at private sales? Also, technically, by some interpretations of the law, if you ever even assembled a Contender rifle to a pistol configuration, say 10" barrel and pistol stocks on it, and then turned it back into a rifle, 20" barrel and rifle stock, you have then created and illegal Class 3 weapon. I believe that the ATF says that once a Class 3 weapon, always a Class 3 weapon.....just a thought...

That issue was settled by a supreme court decision in the 90's.

Put a rifle barrel and stock on it it is a rifle.

Put a pistol barrel and grips on it is a pistol.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

Put a rifle barrel and stock on it it is a rifle.

Put a pistol barrel and grips on it is a pistol.

THIS!!! THIS!!! THIS!!!

When selling or trading a used TC, dealers have no way of checking as to how a frame originally left the factory. And there's no required paper trail for person-to-person sales. Even if an ATF agent approached someone and inquired, they'd have their hands tied, too, because there is no system in place to easily and quickly check a frame's origin. So as long as they are legally stocked, there should never be a problem.

quote:

When selling or trading a used TC, dealers have no way of checking as to how a frame originally left the factory. And there's no required paper trail for person-to-person sales

Private sales where legal are the check valve against registration and confiscation.