I have a Ruger #1 action that I want to get barreled for a .303 British; who's the best guy to do this ? Also, where can I get the .303 barrel (either .311 or .312) ? Thanks.

check with e.r.shaw barrels near pittsburgh pa

Will do, Tom; I've checked at Douglas, but they don't make a .311 or .312 blank.

Frank,

I couldn’t recommend a gunsmith in your area to do the work, but for a barrel you should check out Pac-Nor. They offer .311†with a 10†twist as a standard item.

I’ve been dreaming and scheming for a Ruger #1 in .303 British for quite some time now, and although I’ve not yet started I will be going with a Pac-Nor barrel when I do, a 28†in a custom contour to resemble an English sporter.

Kurt

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Beller:
I have a Ruger #1 action that I want to get barreled for a .303 British; who's the best guy to do this ? Also, where can I get the .303 barrel (either .311 or .312) ? Thanks.

It would be my recommendation to just figure a way to use a .308 bullet in it. It would be much easier to find a good barrel and, of course bullet selection etc etc. Just use a reamer with replaceble pilot with the correct pilot on it. The best thing T/C did to the 32-20 was use .308 bore barrels on it. I'd think that 303 with a std 308 bullet would be a great #1 caliber. But so is a 30/40 . Not sure if the dies would size down enough to use a .308 expander ball for loading but you can always neck size for #1's if it doesn't. May have to find a special reamer for it, but I'm sure it's been done before. 4D may have something. Look around the net...

GEt a custom reamer made so it is not so large in diameter. Standard 303 chambers have about .010 diametral clearance and brass life is pitiful.

McGowen barrels in St Anne, Ill.

Rich
DRSS

Read this:
http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_topic.php?id=823&forum_id=19

FWIW: I have a .338-06 barrel rifled and chambered by McGowen 20 years ago. The chamber always seemed big and the accuracy was not what I thought it should have been capable of. I finally did a chamber/ bore cast and found the chamber to be .008" larger than the LARGEST dia cases I have and the groove dia. to be .3415". Buy from Pac-Nor or another maker.

quote:

Originally posted by Don Howe:
Read this:
http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_topic.php?id=823&forum_id=19

FWIW: I have a .338-06 barrel rifled and chambered by McGowen 20 years ago. The chamber always seemed big and the accuracy was not what I thought it should have been capable of. I finally did a chamber/ bore cast and found the chamber to be .008" larger than the LARGEST dia cases I have and the groove dia. to be .3415". Buy from Pac-Nor or another maker.

Wow, no wonder the accuracy wasn't much . I've heard some others who had problems with McGowen and some who swear by them. I've used countless Shilen barrels over many years, and have never had a problem with them. Douglas has also been very good, where a customer insisted on them. Last year I tried a Wind River barrel (because they offered a tapered oct blank in the right weight) and have been impressed with it. They might build a .303 barrel as they do a lot of lever action barrels. I think the 32-20 had a bore about .311 and they could just adjust the twist.

I have a a brand new un-threaded Krieger .303 barrel in Winchester feather whieght profile. PM if in interested.
Steve

Per SAAMI:
The rim of a 303 case is .064" - .010"
The chamber rim of a 303 is .064" + .015"

If given the minimum headspace at .064", the chamber would still be loose.

80% of all 303 brass rim measurements are between .059" and .062".

The run out on rim thickness of the brass is .000 to .003" typically.

I would be tempted to headspace at .062" for factory ammo.

If a handloader, I would headspace at .059" and trim all my case heads to match.

consider doing a 30-40 Krag instead? It would be easier to buy new commercial brass, and use 308 cast/jacketed bullets...

JMHO

Rich
DRSS

I just recieved a .311 barrel from Shilen for a personal project. If I did not get a Shilen, I would have gotten a Lilja or Krieger. For the most demanding applications, I use Krieger or Lilja. But they are usually not better than anything else, it is a psychological thing with me. Personally, I would not use a Shaw barrel.

David Christman has built many, many custom #1's. It is one of his favorite actions and he uses them himself for much of his hunting. #1's can be a pain in the rear to get shooting right, and David has a lot of experience getting them to shoot small groups.

I suggest you call him at 318-878-1395

quote:

Originally posted by Marc_Stokeld:
I just recieved a .311 barrel from Shilen for a personal project. If I did not get a Shilen, I would have gotten a Lilja or Krieger. For the most demanding applications, I use Krieger or Lilja. But they are usually not better than anything else, it is a psychological thing with me. Personally, I would not use a Shaw barrel.

What was that .311 barrel for? Just curious. I agree on the Shaw bbls. They made ruger bbls for awhile & they were hit or miss, at best. Pun intended .

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Beller:
I have a Ruger #1 action that I want to get barreled for a .303 British; who's the best guy to do this ? Also, where can I get the .303 barrel (either .311 or .312) ? Thanks.

Check out Lothar Walther

Lothar Walther Metric Blanks

As to rim thickness/chamber rim recess varations, consider doing as several gents I know do: headspace with the cartridge rather than a headspace gauge. As you all know, cases vary a greAt deal from specs. For instance, '06 cases of various makes I have on hand vary in head dia. from .462 to .467 versus a .47o spec. Not .303 but the same applys in terms of dimensions.

Be bold, be different. Do the .303!

Brayhaven-

THe barrel is for a personal Mk III project. I am waiting on the reamer, throater, range rods, and bushings from PTG

Check a "Precision Shooting" index for the 1990's. There was a very good article about redoing a Ruger #1 into .303 British. I will look for my copy as soon as possible.
Glenn

Stonewall,

I believe it is the June 2000 issue of "Precision Shooting". (You have a PM.)

Kurt

quote:

Originally posted by brayhaven:

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Beller:
I have a Ruger #1 action that I want to get barreled for a .303 British; who's the best guy to do this ? Also, where can I get the .303 barrel (either .311 or .312) ? Thanks.

It would be my recommendation to just figure a way to use a .308 bullet in it. It would be much easier to find a good barrel and, of course bullet selection etc etc. Just use a reamer with replaceble pilot with the correct pilot on it. The best thing T/C did to the 32-20 was use .308 bore barrels on it. I'd think that 303 with a std 308 bullet would be a great #1 caliber. But so is a 30/40 . Not sure if the dies would size down enough to use a .308 expander ball for loading but you can always neck size for #1's if it doesn't. May have to find a special reamer for it, but I'm sure it's been done before. 4D may have something. Look around the net...

I read this discussion with interest because I went through all the mental gymnastics about this several years ago. After considering all aspects, I went with 7.62x53R.

Before you start thinking odd-ball, let me explain.

First and most important is it uses .308 bullets. World class brass and ammo is made by Lapua. They make factory ammo using their .308 185 gr mega bullet. Dies are reasonable from RCBS or Redding or several others. Two expander balls that come with the dies, one for .308 bullets, and the other for .311 it think.

This cartridge is the Finnish version of the Russian 7.62x54R. The difference is bullet diameter.
It's one of the all time worlds best cartridges, although little known in the USA.

So, after consideration, I would bypass the 30-40, and the 303, and make the same decision I made two years ago, and chamber in the 7.62x53R. I use only Lapua brass, and so far only their 185gr Mega bullet, but there is plenty of brass out there and the Russian brass would work too. That Lapua brass is very good stuff, and not very expensive. I have about 1500 pieces which is probably way more than a lifetime supply. I also bought 20 boxes of factory Lapua ammo.

Using Lapua brass, I don't have to worry at all about rim thickness variations or other problems with brass.

I also had reamers made by Manson, and to a qualified gunsmith I would loan them out, or perhaps sell them, or perhaps work out something in trade. They were used only once to make my barrel. Anyway, we can have a discussion about this if interested.

KB

McGowen used to have some QC issues, but in 1988 I had them barrel an NBRSA Hunter Class BR-spec barrel in 257 Roberts Improved for me on a Rem 700 action. Put it in a 40X repeater stock and it lasted nearly 3000 rounds before it shot a group over .399" with the Hornady 75gr HP at nearly 3700fps. Started out in the .280" range. I never let it get hot.

Rich
DRSS

Regarding case life, I have never had a problem with my model 1900 Steyr, but my Enfield really blows them away - they seem close to splitting sometimes. I believe the military loose chambered them in order that damaged rounds would still feed under battle conditions.
Getting surplus ammo is still possible in the UK, I just purchased a quantity of boxed Knooch mk 7 for $12 a hundred. However, if reloading you can not get the same bullet choice as with the .308 Win. If I had a choice I would just chamber for that, it would be much less of a problem and you can match or better the balistics of the .303.

For smith work on the No-1 I would look to Carolina Precesion and or Bill's Accuracy shop on the Eastern shore of VA.

If one picked advise from above and got a Lothar Walther 308 barrel, a 7.62x54R reamer with floating .300 pilot for .308 bullets, Lapua 7.62x53R brass, 308 bullets, and Forster dies, that would be an accurate rifle suitable for deer or elk.

If you wanted 303B performance, you could download with Blue Dot and get the same recoil are noise.

I have almost talked MYSELF into it, but I have a #1 in 7mmRM that is a tack driver, and occupies the same gun safe niche.

The reamer I had made by Manson is 7.62x53R, with solid pilot for .308 bullets. I think thats .300 bore & .308 grove. I'm using RCBS dies, which were very reasonably priced - about the same as 30-06 dies.

One thing about the reamer which I would give special consideration to if I did it again is to look carefully at the free bore length. I think the CIP allows far more than is necessary, so I would look at specs carefully.

I'm still experimenting with mine, so I don't know yet how it is going to turn out. I know it's accurate with factory Lapua ammo, but I can also seat the hand loaded bullets way out there too.

Lately I have been using the Lothar Walther barrels too, but have yet to actually have a finished rifle to shoot, so I can't say yet how they turned out. From everything I've read and heard, I'm expecting very good results. My gunsmith speaks highly of them too.

KB

Yeah, I know the deal.
I have barrels by Lilja, Hart, and Krieger that are waiting on me to get threaded, chambered and tested.

I have real data on the accuracy of barrels on Lothar Walther, Shilen, Pac Nor, Addams and Bennet, Green Mountain, and Douglas.

From looking at them, Krieger looks the best.
From what I have shot, Lothar Walther shoots the best.

quote:

Originally posted by brayhaven:

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Beller:
I have a Ruger #1 action that I want to get barreled for a .303 British; who's the best guy to do this ? Also, where can I get the .303 barrel (either .311 or .312) ? Thanks.

It would be my recommendation to just figure a way to use a .308 bullet in it. It would be much easier to find a good barrel and, of course bullet selection etc etc. Just use a reamer with replaceble pilot with the correct pilot on it. The best thing T/C did to the 32-20 was use .308 bore barrels on it. I'd think that 303 with a std 308 bullet would be a great #1 caliber. But so is a 30/40 . Not sure if the dies would size down enough to use a .308 expander ball for loading but you can always neck size for #1's if it doesn't. May have to find a special reamer for it, but I'm sure it's been done before. 4D may have something. Look around the net...

Of course, if you had a .308" groove diameter barrel, it would be no problem using .308" bullets in it. But I have seen several SMLE's that shot .308" bullets very accurately. This included a No. 5 (Jungle Carbine) that would shoot MOA with the 200-grain Sierra PSPBT and enough IMR 4350 to give 2100 FPS MV. This load, although slow, was a very deadly deer combo.

Brass life in SMLE's IS pitiful. But this is not all due to sloppy chambering-it is also due to the springy receivers/rear lockup.

I think the 303 would be an excellent performer in the Ruger #1 or an Encore, or any good falling block. I would bet that the brass life would be comparable with any other rimmed cartridge in a good non-springy action, and tight chamber and reasonable pressure loads.

I'll also bet the performance of the 303 in such a rifle would be so close as to not be able to tell the difference, compared to a 308 Winchester , 30-06, 30-40 Craig, 7.62x54R Russian, 7.62x53R Finnish, and I could go on - etc.

But for me, when making the decision of a cartridge for a single shot rifle, there were two criteria - it must have a rim, and the .308 grove to me is much preferred to .311 or .312.

I also have Encore barrels for 7x65R Brennekee, 9.3x74R. I think the 303 would be great, but so would the 7x57R, and 8x57R. Heck with the Encore, a guy could get one or two of each, but if he got the 7.62x53R and used a .308 groved barrel, it would pretty much cover the performance of all those I mentioned, and plenty others too.

And it covers the other important criteria of having industry specs (CIP) and factory ammo (Lapua), and cheap dies, and brass, and plentiful loading data. It's like having a 30-06 with a rim. Heck, I would rather have it than a rimmed 30-06, because personally I think the cartridges shape is better designed than the 308 or the 06, especially when used in a single shot, because the body taper will ease extraction. The 307 Winchester is history just as the 30-40 Craig, and for good reason, and good riddance.

In messing with hand loads, so far I have been plesantly surprised at how many different powders prove satisfactory in this cartridge. It is very versitle. Heck it even likes IMR 4320, and I have a good supply of it because I have not been able to find another cartridge to use it as first choice.

Yes, I have stock in 7.62x53R, Inc.

KB

The 30/40 Krag maybe history in the twilight zone however it still making history here in Michigan. Hunted the Krag last fall in a Ruger #3.

The 9.3x57 I recently had made ain't obsolete either.

Try finding ammo and brass for the 30-40.

KB

Frank
A question. Why a No1 in 303 British when you can get a factory 30-06 that gives the same performance with no hassle?

If you want something exotic, why not the 9,3x74R?

Another question. What is wrong with "just because"?

As to practically, I have recently been thinking that in spite of all the calibers/cartridges made over the years, a fractional approach would serve perfectly well. That is, 1/4', 5/16", 3/8", etc. If we are honest about it, most of the cartridges out there resulted from someone just wanting to be different or someone else was already making what they really wanted to make. On the other hand, we could all shoot .30-06s and drive small block Chevys. NOT!

quote:

Originally posted by Don Howe:
Another question. What is wrong with "just because"?

As to practically, I have recently been thinking that in spite of all the calibers/cartridges made over the years, a fractional approach would serve perfectly well. That is, 1/4', 5/16", 3/8", etc. If we are honest about it, most of the cartridges out there resulted from someone just wanting to be different or someone else was already making what they really wanted to make. On the other hand, we could all shoot .30-06s and drive small block Chevys. NOT!

Don, you jumped the gun on me with this response . You are exactly right. If we asked why we need another caliber in a particular rifle, and had to justfy it rationally, this forum would probably go extinct . I built a #1 in 30 WCF (AI) (oct barrel) last year, and am having a ball with it. Why? Just because it seemed like a good thing to do at the time and it's gotten better, the more I shoot it...

The reason for the .303B is it's classic history in English SXS's & Farquharsons; also, I have the new 9.3X74R Ruger #1. Just want a .303B single shot .......

Try finding ammo and brass for the 30-40.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=brass%3A+30%2F40&fr=yf...e=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

Some of the 10,000,000 are off the mark!

Carne,

First connection using your link: Notice the words "discontinued by Midway"

http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/119938

Also see: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=189782

http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/browse?TabID=1&Cat...*652***670***9013***

and: http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/browse?TabID=1&Cat...*652***670***9013***
and:

KB

This is where I've actually purchased ammo.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/3040krag_bbi.htm

You won't find it at the gas station. Here are the 2007 links for both Remington and Winchester.

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/core-Lokt.asp

http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/cfrlist.aspx?cart=MzAtNDAgS3JhZw==

Not being the most trusting soul I purchased 6 boxes of Remington ammo a few years ago. Browning produces their 1895 lever action in 30/40 every ten years. Most of the 30/40 shooters shooting modern firearns shoot single shots as I do in a Ruger#3. None of this is main stream. Still If your hunting brush the Krag does alright on deer. If faced with purchasing a gun today I would look at a 308

And yet another
http://www.cascade-ammo.com/catalog.php?type=category&id=5799

Have you considered doing it in an improved version ? I know with the Epps the brass lasts forever once formed not to mention the increase in power if you want it

Go Frank Go! I had a Canadian barrel maker assemble a Brit 303 on a #1 for me. Just want to say I'm proud of it in spite of peoples reactions up here.

Ty