What am I looking at?

You are looking at a cigarette Mauser made after ww1 for the tourist trade from old Gewehr 98 Mausers and it has a claw mounted scope on it. What specifically do you want to know? Value; they aren't worth much since they aren't from the Mauser factory; made by small gunsmiths.

luck you have the rings. without them you could halve the value. :-)

Thanks guys what would be the approximate value, not knowing the chambering and assuming that the gun is in the general condition seen in the photos?

The value will be determined by the scope, not the rifle. The claw mount "half" rings are soldered to the steel tube of the scope, which was completely disassembled at the time.

If the glass or crosshairs are screwed up in any way, the scope is useless. Which means the rings are useless, which means the mounts are useless, which means the rifle....

By "useless" I mean that the cost to repair or change such item would be more than any potential value of the complete rifle.

You need to take a peek thru the scope.

the gun looks original,,i,d say 1250-1650 depending on the caliber , and the condition of the bore ,and the condition of the rest of the gun....paul

Scope condition and bore condition would be paramount above all else.

Then checking to see if the double triggers work properly along with the safety.

Caliber certainly plays into value, an 8mm mauser is not nearly desirable as a 7x64 or 9.3x62, etc.

Around my neck of the woods, assuming the bore is excellent and the scope is in good working order, not knowing the caliber you would be lucky to get $1000, more like the $600-$800 range. Knowing the caliber, maker, and receiver origin could mean anywhere from $1000-$1250 or more.

If the scope is no good then even though it has claw mounts you have plenty of options. You can get new rings with blank claws that can be filled / cut to fit your existing bases. Alternatively you could cut the bases and then afix rings or even (not aesthetically pleasing) screw on a rail. Recknagel do the bits - http://www.newenglandcustomgun...279&ST=German%20Claw

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
You are looking at a cigarette Mauser made after ww1 for the tourist trade from old Gewehr 98 Mausers and it has a claw mounted scope on it. What specifically do you want to know? Value; they aren't worth much since they aren't from the Mauser factory; made by small gunsmiths.

Well trooper..

I believe the "cigarette" was done on smallring actions typically from Gusloff.

BTW. Miling through the reciverring is the cheap way doing a SEM mount. The good quality gunsmiths solded a "Fuss-platte"(consol) in order NOT to retract the strength out of the reciver which the M98 heavily rely on.

What is the "cigarette" about. Assuming they did nt come with a packet of Camels!

Local gunsmiths would make these after WW1 to trade to the occupation troops for cigarettes, so the legend goes. The Germans were starving so they could trade the cigarettes for food. I have seen these made from small ring but mostly large ring, (more of them made to start with) despite what Denmark has seen. Most are in 8mm as they left the original barrels on, but I have also seen them in other calibers; a friend has one in 9x57. Value is $500 to as much as you can get, which won't be much unless you find someone who wants it badly. Not much collector interest is what I am saying. Any custom work you have done on the scope mount will exceed the value of the piece but of course, that is up to you. Also, I have never seen a Gustloff small ring Mauser; they (98a) were made by Erfurt, Spandau, Danzig and Amberg. And in Poland at Warsaw too. If you have a picture of one, please send it to me as I collect Mausers. If you are paying $1650 for them out East, I have a nice one I will sell for that price.
Just thought of something; if you are referring to the Swedish 96 small rings being made into sporters (Carl Gustoff), which were made by the thousands in various calibers, I don't think those are considered "cigarette" rifles.

There was no occupation of Germany after World War I. The occupation came after WWII. The term "cigarette rifle" comes from the period 1945-55, when American occupation officers would trade a few cartons of cigarettes for a sporterized mauser made by a struggling gunsmith or company. During the late '50s and early 60's, the German gun trade got back on it's feet, often being imported into the US under trade names like Westernfield.

The example seen in the above pictures has features more in tune with the period around World War I, and I suspect is a Guild gun of some sort. Markings would help narrow it down.

You are right about that. So the term might not be period correct, but the rifles are of the same ilk, quality, and value, or lack of it. I have heard the term used (for the past 50 years) for all rifles of this type, made in Germany from small gunsmiths; regardless of whether they are post ww1 or 2, and I continue to use it.

Mine has a DT scope mount through the ring; seems not to hurt strength in them with standard rounds. Maybe if you chambered it for a 300 mag or something...but 98s are very well designed and strong. No one would mount the front base that way now..

Thanks everyone for the comments, what I learned today about the rifle and the first picture above makes me think that this gun has been modified from the original.

The guy who owns it says that it is chambered in 257 Roberts and shoot great. Looking at the first picture above, the chamber area of the barrel looks a lot blacker and more glossy than the front action ring. I suspect that it's been rebarreled.

257R does seem like an odd chambering.

I would not necessarily think it re barreled though. A lot of rifles from this era have "french grey" receivers and blued barrels.

Not saying the above is definitively one or the other.

Post a picture of the barrel and we can tell right away if it is a military barrel, or a commercial one. I see a little shoulder on it which the mil ones have (usually a bit bigger) but who knows, it could be commercial. It is unusual for a German built rifle though. 257 was popluar in the 50s before the 243 came out and killed it; I have two of them.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Mine has a DT scope mount through the ring; seems not to hurt strength in them with standard rounds. Maybe if you chambered it for a 300 mag or something...but 98s are very well designed and strong. No one would mount the front base that way now..

Pics of that style of scope mounting get posted here from time to time as an example of how a Mauser got ruined, etc.

I've avoided them at gun shows and the auction sites, should I have?

How much of a disadvantage is the dovetail mount, really?

Opinions/research/whatever?

Jus' askin'.

Germany was, in parts, occupied after WWI! The Rhineland.

I cannot think that 257 Roberts was EVER its original chambering.

quote:

Pics of that style of scope mounting get posted here from time to time as an example of how a Mauser got ruined, etc.

I've avoided them at gun shows and the auction sites, should I have?

How much of a disadvantage is the dovetail mount, really?

Opinions/research/whatever?

Even Mauser factory used occasionally that way to mount scope. So, if made with correct way, it don´t ruin the the rifle if we talk about to useability, i.e. to use the rifle safely. The collectors have their own advices and most often they prefer want to have rifles without any scopes

by the lack of a quarter or full rib, this looks like at top end cigarette rifle -- the term comes from trading cartons of smokes for a rifle -- several, but it doesn't mean officer only -- one needs to get that of the jargon.

if the scope is good, that is GREAT news, for a collector - however, the rings (so to speak) are actually the money - and your mid ring could easily have a replacement made to fit a 1" or 30mm and you could even swap front to rear on a different scope.

FORGET THE POPPYCOCK about you "must" solder on a new scope -- you can use blackmax 380 or 480 -- note, 480 is more or less perm.. it will likely dent the scope taking it off...
http://www.loctitehf.com/assets/tds/480-EN.pdf

so, what do you have? 10 years ago you could have bought this for 400-500 with the scope -- today you MIGHT get just the rifle minus rings for that -- but, hey, vz-24s in rough condition are 250-300 bucks these days -- and people PAY for 1903 turks ... 20 years ago i could get 4 or 5 (depending on condition) for the $100 ...

today? at tulsa gun show, assuming the barrel isn't ruined, but the scope is marginal - at least 700 bucks in 8x57 ... 100 more for 7x57, 200 more for 7x64, at least 300 more for 9,3x62 and at least 500 more for 10,75x68 -

if the scope is decent, add 200-300 more....

this isn't a collector, thank goodness