So, I've begun my study of bolt gun handling, and I am starting to pick up the pace a little. post 64 win 70 in 416 rem mag. The idea is to fire a shot and get it reloaded quickly. I've been doing daily dry fire for a while, keeping the rifle shouldered as I work the bolt. I've been putting a fired piece of brass in the chamber and a 1 dummy round in the magazine. If I go slow, it works fine. But if I go fast the round in the magazine jumps out as the bolt comes back fast. This would be a less than optimal situation if I actually needed that loaded round to be in the chamber.
Any suggestions? Any suggestions other than "sorry, bolt guns must be operated slowly"?

Just sayin'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFYZHLuxXZ8

Cycling it slow should show you where the action/ magazine is causing issues, you should see a loose spot around the cartridge, that tell me the feed rails are not correct for the cartridge. But that is a pure guess.

was this the original caliber or was it rebarreled to 416 rem mag??

And may i suggest Duane Wiebe's book "making it Feed"

^It's original 416 rem mag. It feeds properly slow and medium. It looks as though when the bolt quickly comes off the rear of the case, it allows the case to come up quickly and hit the feed rail, and bounce. If it bounces hard enough, it jumps right out.

Magazine spring too heavy? Worth trying a lighter spring.

Could it be your dummy round? Go to the range and load up, then cycle unfired rounds fast and see if it still happens.

Had the same issue with a detachable magazine rifle (.280 Rem in BDL DM format) and it was the magazines. Kwik Klip solved the problem, but that doesn't help you.

Bending magazine lips didn't help me and messing with magazine springs made no difference.

On a suggestion I did a little more testing. It is only a problem when there is 1 round in the magazine. It seems to be something about the fact the follower does not apply quite enough pressure to keep the round pressed under the feed rail when things get all bouncy. It never happens with 2 or 3 rounds in the magazine.

Rounds jumping ship like that is a classic charge against push-feed bolts. Post-64 says push feed, of course, though the modern calibre suggests CRF or Controlled Round Push Feed, which sounds like the best of both worlds to me. Some purists would say CRF is essential and the Zimbabwe PH-training survey claimed another American brand was not reliable even then.

Whatever type this is, if you intend to use this rifle against dangerous game, get some renowned gunsmith to sort it out.

i'm going to jump in here with my recent experience,have a 721 270 first round won't stay in the magazine,but if you hold it down and get the next rounds on top of it,stays in till you cycle it thru to the last round.Took a spring out of a 700 BDL and works fine and the 721 spring works fine in the 700 BDL,go figure??

Duane is the guy to listen to but I have also had nickel plated ammo cause the same problem with rifles that always worked perfectly with brass cases.

Frank your follower is to narrow. Winchester had some feeding issues with the 416 Rem in particular. This was one of those issues. Towards the end the Winchester team had quite a few followers to choose from. They almost got it right.

quote:

Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:
Frank your follower is to narrow. Winchester had some feeding issues with the 416 Rem in particular. This was one of those issues. Towards the end the Winchester team had quite a few followers to choose from. They almost got it right.

I'm sure you are correct. If I have to I will have the machine shop rough out a piece of aluminum then I will fit it the rest of the way myself. Do you have any solutions that would be easier? I'm thinking maybe a 30-06 follower would be thicker in the middle.

Uhh, tried contacting Winchester?

Or is that a waste of time these days?

I haven't. I would imagine they are going to tell me it is the right follower and stop trying to work the bold so fast.

Frank, you are correct.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
You might build up the L. front side of the follower just a bit ...A small bead with might make it work.

That's what I was thinking. But we are quickly leaving the area where I feel comfortable. If I got a different follower I would be ok with trying to modify that.

As per I suggestion I received, I put tape on the side of the follower to fix the slop a little.
Just like magic, the shells all feed properly no matter how fast I run them. So, I need to fit a new follower, or braze some metal onto this one.

quote:

Originally posted by frank4570:
I haven't. I would imagine they are going to tell me it is the right follower and stop trying to work the bold so fast.

Or "Try a Remington"?



Geez, it IS a Remington cartridge!

Remove your mag box, and if there is any angle at all at the top, straighten it out. Follower is only part of the equation.

Bending the top of the magazine box lips straight up is only going to promote the issue. As it will generate more width in the box under the rails for the last round. If the last round is the only problem child It stands to reason that it is not the current box geometry. The follower is to narrow and shifts away from the last round under magazine spring pressure allowing that last round to slip out from under the rail. At least thats my take, I could be wrong

Resurrecting an old thread as my experience may help someone.
First thanks to the pros like Duane that offer their advise, it is appreciated.
When my Win 416 was cycled briskly sometimes the rounds would jump out the top. This is a 1995 CRF New Haven rifle in its original 416 RM chambering.
First I tried a Callahan follower from Midway. Helped some, but still occasional "jumpers" totally unacceptable.
The spring steel magazine box narrows down back to front with a approx. 1/4 lip at the top that cants inward. Mine was about .1 at the back and .08 midway,from vertical. I bent the lip out to .08 at back and .06 midway. The cases now seem to be caught under the rails and feeding is faultless.
This is only my experience but it may help someone.
Thanks
Larry

frank -don't mod the gun.. get STRONGER mag spring .. make certain its not the bent-to-reduce-round-count one.. wolf used to make one

That was my first step. Pre 64 non-bend spring was so much stronger it seemed a no brainer. Since mid 90's CRF Winchesters, especially 416s seem to be a regular topic with feeding problems, I don't think a "do not touch" approach is warranted.
I'm not suggesting anyone modify their rifle. Just passing along one persons experience
Larry

quote:

Originally posted by frank4570:
I haven't. I would imagine they are going to tell me it is the right follower and stop trying to work the bold so fast.

That would have to be a joke, of course. Everyone who ever watched 'Kung Fu' knows that when things get exiting, time seems to slow down - mainly because we are reacting much faster than usual. That means no one slows down bolt operation when being charged.

This is a rifle meant for use against dangerous game, and should function reliably. If FN is the legal successor to the old Winchester, send it back and make them worry about it at pain of the brand being tarnished.

quote:

Originally posted by ChiefR53:
That was my first step. Pre 64 non-bend spring was so much stronger it seemed a no brainer. Since mid 90's CRF Winchesters, especially 416s seem to be a regular topic with feeding problems, I don't think a "do not touch" approach is warranted.
I'm not suggesting anyone modify their rifle. Just passing along one persons experience
Larry

Howdy Larry,
I didn't mean any offense -- with the turn of the century winnies being of such horrible QC, i was trying to rely to Frank that the first step is the easist and least damaging..

Sambarman - FN is NOT the legal successor, they are the license to produce, license to use name holder - WInchester, preFN, went bankrupt and liquidated - FN leased the license from Olin -

that they generally will handle warranty is a goodwill item - not a requirement - elsewise the company that leased the license to produce has an unknown, unknowable liability for the previous holders crappy work.. which would make the license of negative value

The follower lump is a little too far to the left.