Been waiting patiently for two left hand standard bolt face stainless actions. Now has anyone received a right hand one which i believe have been shipping lately. Any observations as to fit and finish, Quality and above all tolerances. Are they really square as to not need finish machining before barreling, Lug engagement etc.? What about feeding? Are they smoother than a Ruger 77? Do they need anything i am not aware of? Swede96.

Swede,

Check your email.

swede - i am in the process of ordering one (RH short-action in 6.5x55mm), and have many of the same questions you have.

i've got full faith in MRC. they have been "good folks" right from the get-go, as far as i am concerned. from an interested observer's standpoint, it would be nice to hear some inpressions and opinions from other members.

[ 09-23-2003, 06:57: Message edited by: tasunkawitko ]

I know that Rod@AcraBond has received a bunch of long M1999 actions (mostly SS). As far as I know he was very happy with them - said the quality of the actions in general was very good, 98 or 99% I think were figures he mentioned (I think that refers to the level of perfect actions he would expect to find in a batch??).
- mike

I wonder how long we lefty longs will have to wait behind all the righty shorts-- ain't there something like 1,500-1,800 righty shorts in the queue? I'm happy for you guys that you'll get yours, but bummed that I have to wait behind all of you.

I've been away for a couple of months. When did the short RH actions begin shipping? Does anyone have any idea what number they are up to now? Am eagerly awaiting my two...

AC

I received a call last week. They said I should be receiving mine by the end of October.

Hi everyone, I hope maybe I can help with some of your MRC action questions. First of all I have in my posession a SS long action right hand. I have trued the face, checked and lightly lapped the lugs, and very lightly polished the bolt (it was bead blasted). I built an arbor for the action and checked it for true before mounting the action on it. I then checked the run-out on the face of the action with an indicator that measures in.0001 or ten thousanths of an inch. TIR on the face was .0013. I feel this is close enough for most uses! But I did go ahead and true the face, just because that is how I am. The lugs lapped in to approx. 90% contact with almost no effort, and polishing the bolt smoothed the action up an incredible amount. IMHO the actions are fine for most uses as shipped. As with everything there is always room for improvement if you want to invest the time. Ed

As Michael has indicated, we have taken delivery of almost a hundred actions now in both chrome moly and stainless. Most of these are targeted toward our Montanan custom line and the Ghost kits. Forty are private labled for the Serengeti concept rifle line, and as such must be qualified before labeling. To do so, Serengeti built tooling based on the manufacturing fixtures used to machine the actions. Our purpose was to test for coaxial allignment between bolt bore, lock-up area and barrel threads in the receiver.

Since we had the tooling, and it worked, we tested everything we got. 20-25% of the units were dead on the nominal spec. Another 25% or so were less than 40% of the tolerance range away from nominal specification. All but three receivers fell within the engineering specification tolerance and two of those were clearly set-up errors by the machine shop, the barrel threads visibly not centered the bolt face. Those units were lowish serial numbers and I have no doubt human learning curves will play a part in any human endeavor. The third unit is inexplicable. Bent maybe.

To a guy who understands six-sigma quality programs, 97.5% good is less than good. But to be fair, we found all three in the first batch of 35 we looked at and MRC sent them back to machining center under CAR (corrective action request).

Ed and Rod, that was great feedback, thanks for taking the time to share this with us!

It would be interesting to know, given what you have observed, how the M1999 stacks up in terms of dimensional integrity against factory actions (M70, M700, Ruger etc)??

Rod, when you state that 97.5% of the actions you measured fall within the stated tolerance, what does that mean to the normal user? Does it mean that statistically in 97.5% of the time the proud owner of a M1999 action should be able to expect to screw on a barrel and have at it with no further work?? As Ed states, there is always room for improvement, if one invests the time and the effort.

It is obvious that in any product there is a trade-off between price and "quality" (e.g. measured in dimensional integrity). Have MRC hit the right compromise??
- mike

[ 09-25-2003, 13:13: Message edited by: mho ]

97.5% within specification may not mean much if the specification was like the typical retail trade manufacturer.

But MRC's specs are much tighter than that. Raw castings are +/-.005 before machining and that is often the specification for the machined parts in some areas on many commercial actions.

Our spindle tells how well the machined bolt bore lines up with the as-cast bore. The thimble gives us sense of axial offset of the locking lug area. The barrel shank stud screws into the receiver ring, passes through the .705 thimble and mates with the spindle ONLY if the action is within specification. Larger thimbles like .708 and .710 allows less offset. The .710 diameter thimble allows none. If an action rates a "10", we like it. A lot.

Competitent smiths will and should check any action for a custom rifle. I suspect the purchaser of a M1999 will have less cause for worry than he would with just about any factory action.

And to answer the original question most directly, even the discrepent actions were far, far better than two of the three M70 Classic actions I've encountered in the last twelve months. The axial displacement/alligment was in the order of 5-10 thousandths. All three would probably have shot just fine.

I'm gettin' psyched!!!

i mailed payment today - looking forward to receiving this fine action~

these guys at MRC and acrabond are great gentlemen to do business with!

Now this is what i needed to hear! I'm looking forward to building a rifle on the best semi wildcat hunting cartridge there is, The 338-06. The best balance of sectional density with diameter and bullet weight with the right velocity for managable recoil. This one should be a factory standard. I doubt if we'll ever see it made by Rem or Win. The Whelen 35 is nice but i like better sectional density. Still, I have two, One a Rem classic and one a custom Improved. But looking at the numbers, I think i would pick a 338-06 before a 35 Whelen. Swede96.

My goodness..... sounds like MRC has started out with a real, live quality system. Be still, my heart!!

I do six sigma for a living.

Some companies really "get" the quality thing. Their quality will improve over time, and their costs will decline. Other companies don't "get" it, and their quality stays the same or fluctuates, and their costs go up over time. Betcha can't figure out which camp most gun manufacturers are in.....

denton -

from where i sit, it looks like MRC has a great start. i get the impression that they are putting quality and service first.

evidence of the quality is found in some of the above posts and reports from others stating that they are quite impressed with MRC. not being a gunsmith, and knowing nothing about the technical side of rifle-building, i am not qualified to opine on the over all-quality of the finished product. i am smart enough, however, to see that the concept of melding the mauser, winchester and ruger designs is downright beautiful~~i am guessing that this concept translates into a goodly amount of inherent quality. as i stated before, the reports i have seen and the one action i have handled first-hand will bear this out.

evidence of service can be found in the fact that they are here keeping us informed and that they were willing to to make a payment arrangement with me, even though they didn't have to. on top of this they have responded to all of my emails with rapid replys that actually answered my questions.

on top of everything, the price is more than affordable. in my opinion, you get the best bang for the buck in buying this action. if i didn't think so, i wouldn't be buying it.

in short, i would recommend MRC to anyone who wanted to build a rifle. every recommendation is a potential sale, and that is a recipe for success. as you said, let's hear it for quality and service!

I have recieved the first of the actions I ordered and am VERY impressed. I have ordered five actions for myself and three for others here in Australia. I am so impressed that I have asked to become the Australian distributor for the actions and will hopefully be importing upto 100 actions annually. I'm putting my money where my mouth is!!

AT LAST!!! A post from somebody who has actually seen an example of the first runs of the action for which we have all waited for so long. Can you post some "up close and personal" pictures; especially of the insides where the boltraces are and some of the lug areas?

Six sigma cracks me UP!!!

Motorola, the "idea case" company, is in the shitter, as they spent SOO much time trying to get ot 5 sigma, and money, that they hamstrugn themselves with the PROCESS.

99.0 is horrible, on quality

99.9975 is IMPOSSIBLE on mass produced, HIGH volume items.

Just remember to blanace reality with quality... if it costs more to prevent .0025 than repairing/replacing/rejecting that error, then you are not being cost effective in normal companies.

yes, I agree that the aerospace guys should hold tighter... as there's about 500,000 pieces on a 757, and a failrue rate of .0025 means 1250 pieces fail, OUT OF THE BOX.

jeffe

So, jeff...
You're saying they suffered paralysis by analysis?

hi jeff....

Of course, some companies in trouble are doing six sigma, and some companies doing wonderfully are not. And most companies do it all wrong, which doesn't help matters. If it's done right, people usually enjoy it, and it routinely produces large savings. You'll have to come to one of our classes... I think you'd have a lot of fun. I hope you didn't have a bad experience with one of the poorly done programs. That would be unfortunate.

I'm impressed because MRC seems to be taking quality seriously. If they keep it up, their quality will continuously improve, and their costs will come down. I wish other manufacturers would be this serious about it. The "magic" is that you get both better quality and lower costs.

99.9975% can, and is being done. One of our large clients is routinely shipping to a better level than that. In most cases, though, it pays better to drive the biggest problem down to 10% of the present error rate, then move to the next biggest, etc.

You can read about us at www.pmg.cc if you're curious. There are some nice, free downloads, and even a video of me, ranting about consultants who do six sigma poorly.

six sigma is not magic.

In a nutshell, it's this. Feedback.

The people who make the product get to talk with the people who use it. The goals are public and the producer builds a team to "listen" and adjust the processes by feedback in a continuous attempt to meet the product goals.

The team leader (blackbelt) is primarily responsible for being the conduit between the customers and the technicians/assemblers on the production line. These guys and gals, who actually build the product, come up with process solutions to performance and quality problems that are process related. As Denton said, six sigma is/can be fun. Image an employee empowered to find a way to make something he makes better.

My training in six sigma came from a vendor (digital equipment) association with General Electric, most likely the six-sigma champion.

Hot dang! Now I will watch MRC with even more interest.

It doesn't even matter much if they do six sigma or not. What matters is that they are focused on customer needs, and are committed to constant improvement. If those are part of their core values, they will compete very well. If they do that, and can once get a financially viable toe-hold, time will favor them.

Yes, GE has had a fine program. My training came from ex-Motorola, AlliedSignal, and GE people. Since then, we've been working mostly in automotive OEM, and aerospace, though we recently did some work for a precision casting foundry here in the Ogden, UT area.

You have obviously grasped the key ideas, and are using them. So good for you, MRC! Show the other manufacturers how to do it right!! Customer centered, data driven, systematic.... go for it.

I have pictures of the action, s/s long in the white. If you bounce me your email I will reply with the photos attached. Action in as I received it. As stated before by others it requires some work to make it perfect: lapping the race and lugs, polishing the bolt (bolt face is 100% true as is} lapping & truing the trigger and sear, setting the trigger weight to your specs etc. By my measurements the whole action bolt and thread are true. email is shaydon@bigpond.net.au and the pics are jpeg cheers

I got the pictures and I have to wonder if yours missed the polishing phase. The surface is as-cast. Dan said the actions had to go to Ohio or someplace for polishing and then back to MT for engraving. What polishing?? If I have to polish it myself, will I lose the engraving?? email sent to you...

Rods got it right, six sigma is a process to measure and track performance and hold people accountable.

As such it has no bearing on the success or failure of a company; it�s a tool plain and simple and like any tool how it is used determines its usefulness.

well,what i want to know is how you six sigma guys rank the current mass-production bolt-action rifle makers. i guess they would be (NOT in order) weatherby (vanguard), savage, winchester, remington, howa (house brand plus vanguard), ruger, sako (including tikka), CZ and steyr. am i missing anybody who sells a complete rifle for less than $700?

fish280...

I wish I had the answer to that one! The only thing I can say is that most of the manufacturers I'm familiar with don't seem to "get" the "quality thing." Prices go up every year, and I hear a lot of reports of sub-standard stuff getting to customers.

As a rule, companies that don't get it rely on inspection as their quality tool, do lots of rework in their processes, and have high Cost of Poor Quality.

Companies that do get it are very attentive to their customers, and constantly strive to review their processes and do better, and to drive down costs.

I've never seen or held an MRC rifle, but the reports from customers and the posts by Rod give me great hope that MRC does get it. I would be VERY happy to see that kind of player in the marketplace.

How are these actions made? Are they cast or forged?

Cast at Pinetree (Ruger)

Rootbeer: Stainless steel is polished just like 4140...shiny bright when MRC gets it. But stainless actions can't be built into rifles without bead blasting back to the matte finish. It is not as-cast, simply blasted back to matte. 4140 actions are left shiny.

The supply chain is logical and follows a nice path from Ruger to MRC. When the castings leave Ruger, they go six miles to machining center A, or 60 miles to machining center B. Once machined to specification, they are trucked down Interstate 91 from both centers to Springfield, Massachusetts where S&W batches them with Kimber, Weatherby et all and heat treats the bolt and receiver to spec. Usually in and out of S&W in 1-3 days.

Then they head west. 1600 miles to Minnesota, which is exactly on the truck path to Montana. Trucking is 7-9 days...and you guys would NOT like air shipping charges added to these actions. The polishing house bead blasts the heat treat scale off the bolts and receivers and then polishes both. Back on the truck.

Another thousand miles in the same direction and 5-7 days later, they arrive at MRC. All bright and shiny. They are electro-etched (for now - as a new CNC engraver is due to arrive any day) and then assembly begins. Actions are not built one by one. They are group assembled in stages by gunsmiths for maximum efficiency. They get proofed and then the stainless exteriors get a final light bead-blast for the matte finish.

About every CNC machining center in the Flathead valley is making parts for MRC today. The first house has gone from one VF3 to four. MRC has them all maxed out. Five gun drills (four acquired from Ruger) are striving to make enough barrels. Two reamers are flat out. Another stress relief furnace is on the way in. And two CNC lathes are contouring barrels.

With us making the Montanan and Serengeti rifle lines on the M1999, Kalispell, Montana now has a gun industry and that is pretty cool for a town of 15,000 people.

Rod -

Just in case any of us ever get a chance to visit, two questions...

Are you, by any chance, in the old John Buhmiller/J. Hall Sharon facility west of town?

Are visitors welcome on the premises?

AC

P.S. Thanks for the call today. Am really looking forward to my actions... If they are half way as good as they sound, will be the most interesting thing on the market since sliced bread.

[ 10-03-2003, 10:43: Message edited by: Alberta Canuck ]

So, Rod...
Can I polish up the action to have it match my shiny SS barrel? Am I getting into the red zone with the engraving if I try a little wheel and rouge on it? Better yet, do I really want to polish up the action; does it look better matte? Are Ruger long rods "polished" or matte?
In another direction, your time estimates for transportation seem overly generous. I am a long-hauler; I can get from Winchester, VA to Laredo, TX (over 1800 miles) in three days. I can get from Winchester, VA to Dallas, TX (approx 1300 miles) in 29 hours. How are you shipping, on Roadway or Yellow or God forbid, ABF???

[ 10-04-2003, 01:42: Message edited by: rootbeer ]

Rootbeer: Probably not a good idea to try and polish it back yourself. MRC tried polishing actions at first and the guys at the ACGG hid them in drawers at the show. That's why they stop in Minnesota. A heavy hand or a less experienced one can put in waves and round crisp lines and corners faster than you would believe...even in Rc44 steel.

Better just ask MRC not to final blast your action. Leave it shiny. Just remember - critters notice stuff like that.

As to the carrier, remember I'm not with MRC any more. I do consult with them, almost on a weekly basis, but details like the shipping company are not part of that scene.

Here's a couple of shots on off-the-shelf actions we have from MRC.

First a blued 4140 barreled action:



A matte stainless action:



This is one of the Ghost kits in stainless:

Those are some impressive actions. I'd like a stainless one in 257 Weatherby!

nuttin wrong with stainless......

that a blued electroplated copper wont FIX....

or even black teflon....

dang, I hate white metal on guns....

jeffe
blue steel, and red/black walnut!!!

Rod,
I came up with an idea vis-a-vis shiny versus matte. I am loathe to do it, but I am considering sanding my barrel with 600-grit sandpaper to bust the shine off of it and go with the matte look. At least I was until I read your post about having MRC leave it unblasted. Does the action look "good" unblasted? Can I polish it by hand with Flitz or some other kind of abrasive with a very low cutting power? Toothpaste or maybe automobile rubbing compound comes to mind.