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Hi everybody, I am having a custom built at the moment and was wondering if it was possible to install open sights on a barrel after it has been full length fluted? Cheers, elwood. | ||
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That is an interesting question, isn’t it? | |||
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I thought so indeed! That's why i asked...  | |||
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Elwood, After is has been fluted...sure if you told the fluter in advance. When you have a bbl fluted you can spec the start and stop point of the fluting. Just mark the bbl where you want the flute to strat and stop and then you will have "plain" bbl where you mount your sights... That is what I am haing done on my mountain rifle... Now in my case I am using the ashley rear peep sight wich is integral to a weaver base so there is no problem with the rear part of the bbl Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Not a problem for most 'smiths but they will typically charge you a little extra to do what they call "index" the flutes so they are oriented the way you need them to be. DB Bill aka Bill George | |||
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I've seen one that had open sights and a barrel band swivel. Looked kinda neat. Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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Thanks for your replies! The problem is, that the barrel IS ALREADY FLUTED! So is there still a chance? I hate going on a hunting trip without open sights as a backup! | |||
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Just sight in a spare scope and take it with you. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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elwood Yes it can be done but there perimeters. If the flutes on the barrel is not indexed there is no way of making it look good. All barrel fluting stop 1 1/2 to 2 inches short of the muzzle. This is plenty of room to use a screw on base or solder on a barrel band. Depending on caliber you can fill under the sight ramp with black silicone in a light caliber or Loctite Black Max in heavy calibers. Black Max is an adhesive designed to withstand shock and vibration. I use this with no screws to mount front sights on tactical shotguns. I have never had one to come off. The main thing for a good looking job is the indexing of the flutes. Talk to who ever is putting your rifle together and tell him what you want. James | |||
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Hi Jamey, thanks for your advise. Unfortunately the barrel has already been manufactured by Lothar Walther. I don't really care if it looks good or not, my main concern is that I don't stand there without any sights just in case my scope breaks. The Loctite Black Max sounds good and since my rifle is chambered in .308 so shock and vibration should be no problem! Cheers, elwood. | |||
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Elwood: I flute barrels every day. Well every other month lets not get carried away. Yes it does reduce a bit of weight but not much!!!! And yes it might cool a bit a bit faster but not much!!!! But, to be honest I would never flute one of my own barrels. It’s just another breeding ground for stress. Yes a properly indexed set of flutes on a barrel do look nice. I suppose. But nothing looks as horny as a rakish, thin tapered barrel with nasty looking express sites! But if you just must have a fluted barrel and must have to put sites on it get the biggest and highest you can find!!! Prolly the sites from a post 64 70. Small, low sites will look silly on it. For some reason fluted barrels look larger than the really are. Don’t ask me why I don’t got no degree in psychiatrist. Just gun plumbing The high sites will be harder to use but I imagine you will be using a scope and the sites are only for looks anyway :Rod Henrickson When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
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speerchucker: Why is it that a bolt can be helical-fluted, but a barrel cannot? Is it because nobody has tried or they just don't want to set up the indexing head? | |||
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Why not just install quick release mounts and have a spare scope mounted in a second set of rings and already sighted in? | |||
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I don't want the sights for the looks! I need them to be sturdy and compatible with my scope. Spare scope would be a good idea but I already have TPS rings on a Picatinny Rail. Aren't there any open sights to be mounted on a rail??? | |||
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E.R. Shaw does a helical flute. Looks like you're playing coyboys and indians with your dad's power drill. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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 Elwood, Hey Bud, how's tricks? My suggestion would be to take a look a Blaser fluted barrel, my Attaché barrel in .30/06 Sprg. has flutes and sights on it. While the Blaser flutes appears to be "small" to me (in comparison to other manufacturers), they have obviously got a solution for this. You could probably even order a set of sights from Blaser and have your gunsmith install. Cheers, Number 10 | |||
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You could probably have a ghost ring fit to to the Picatinny rail. At least that would save you having to worry about rear sights - apart from apeture sights normally being both faster and more accurate then normal open sights. Only problem with something detachable, how do remember to always bring it along?? If you have room on your rail, you could even install the ghost ring sight permanently. The lads from Waffenfabrik Hein (WA USA, in spite of the German sounding name??) posted about a neat solution of a fixed auxiliary ghost ring not very long ago. If there is room for it on the mounts, it sure looked like a neat solution. Before you spend a lot of $$$ on this, though, make sure you'll be able to actually see the open sights with the stock configuration you have in mind. Depending on your stock and how far you are willing to get down on it, the stock may or may not be useable for you with both scope and open sights. If memory serves, you were looking to build with a classic, straight comb (US made) synthetic stock. These stocks are built for scope use, and not all people can get far enough down on the stocks to see open sights - even if the sights are reasonably high. I know that auxiliary open sights are all the rage on European rifles. The theory being that you can use both optical and open sights. Reality is, that few people ever do so for the reasons mentioned above. Yet 90% of European hunters will claim their stocks are perfect for both. I have mostly found such claims to be of about the same "truth" value as hunters claiming fabulous accuracy for their rifles (and then not be able to sight in properly), or that a particular bullet always causes immediate death of the animal with zero meat destruction.... Most stocks that fit well with open sights are made for use with open sights, and the use of a scope is a bit of a compromise - and vice versa. - mike P.S. This is the post about the integral ghost ring sight I was talking about... ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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@ gerry: You ask how things are going? Well take a look at the vote results AND THEN ASK ME AGAIN!!!! I AM FU..NG MAAAAAD!!!!!  Jesus, when will the German people get it I wonder...Anyway thanks for the advice about Blaser. But I always thought they interrupted the flutes for the base of the rear sight??? Will take a look at it though... @ mho: This peep sight looks like the thing to get! I don't need high precision open sights so the stock is not as important. I'm getting a McMillan Sako Hunter by the way. I want them just as backup in case my scope or mounts break (hardly possible with a S&B Zenith on TPS rings and picatinny Rail...). I'm planning a couple of solo trips in remote country and don't want to find myself facing anything nasty with a naked barrel! This integral ghost ring would still require a front sight right - but what does it look like? But I suppose that would be no problem since the fluting stops well before the muzzle. Thanks, elwood. | |||
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The fluting stopping well short of the muzzle was why I believed your main problem would be the rear sight - thus the idea of using a ghost ring instead of a barrel mounted rear sight. At least you don't have to fight the (existing?) fluting that way. I don't know if there is any particular front sight that works best with a ghost ring?? I guess since you just center the front sight, that a simple square sight would do well. Others will have more experience than I do here... If you do intend to take your rifle on trips to far away places, do make sure you bring along an extra scope pre-mounted and pre-sighted, in addition to your primary scope (and any auxiillary open sights you may decide on). Long trips can be expensive and only happen once in a while, and it sure is a lot easier to hit at long range with a scope than with open sights. I never hunt in far away places these days without a spare scope. - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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Spare scope sounds like a good idea, just need the cash to buy it - unfortunately S&B scopes and Badger Ordnance rings don't fall from the sky... Can't wait to get my degree and start planning the next hunting trip!!! | |||
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No need for the spare to be an expensive Euro scope. Get a fixed 4x or 6x of a decent US brand (Leupold or Burris spring to mind). That will do just fine for a backup. A heck of a site better than open sights, in any event. You can also pick up a new Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40 on Ebay for 3-400$, if you want something nice. Your backup scope should sensibly be a light scope, since you are really only intending it to be used in case of disaster. So cheap, light, simple and rugged is what you are looking for. Are there not less expensive mounts that fit a Picatinny rail?? I have never used one of these, but from the outside they look like a glorified Weaver base (??). If that is the case, a pair of steel Burris (Signature) Zee rings might do the trick for not that much $$$. - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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Sounds like a sensible solution although I don't like the idea of carrying another 500 gramms of replace scope around. Well, we'll see what turns out to be the most pratical and affordable solution. Also depends on where my next trip will lead me, time will tell. But thanks anyway for your very useful suggestions - very much appreciated! Thanks and all the best, elwood. | |||
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