Can a Ruger 77 MK II or Hawkeye action be case color hardened?
If so, who offers this service?

they go purple when you blue them - these receivers are both HARD and cast -- ruger is a master class shop for metal casting -- I don't know that they wouldn't, for the action. The bottom metal is aluminum

you might email Doug Turnbull and ask

They aren't really too hard.
Turnbull might do them if anyone can; he makes them colored but has figured out how to do it without making them hard. I have had Ruger Blackhawk frames colored by Turnbull and they turn out nice.

I really like the look of the plum color on the old 77's. Not all of them change color.

Me too; I have a 257 with a purple receiver and I like it.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
They aren't really too hard.
Turnbull might do them if anyone can; he makes them colored but has figured out how to do it without making them hard. I have had Ruger Blackhawk frames colored by Turnbull and they turn out nice.

Turnbull and his crew are the masters at CCH

I have a rolling block going out them this week. They are masters for sure; their colors are so vivid that some say they are not historic; I don't care, I like them.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I have a rolling block going out them this week. They are masters for sure; their colors are so vivid that some say they are not historic; I don't care, I like them.

Most of the EGG-SPURTZ out there have never seen a color cased object that wasn't 100 years old or put out by one of the modern, cheap European gun makers Tom. They don't know what a professionally done, freshly colored and lacquered piece of steel is supposed to look like. I remember working on brand new Perazzi MX8s back in the 80s and the case on them looked like a professionally done, highly Photoshoped photograph of a case hardened, 97th street hooker. The colors were so deep, dark and sharp, that you began to think the crap was painted on. What was different about it was the fact that it had been done less than a year ago, by someone who knew what the fawk they were doing and hadn't been handled and beat up for 80 years.

And that is my rant for today!

I also like that plum color when done right. The late tony Barnes of twin Falls, was a master of plum color he got with a torch and Browning, it was a dark, dark plum with brown highlights..He used it on his muzzle loaders.

On odd finishes. Over the years I have done a couple red-oxide slow process jobs at the request of customers. It's started on a mirror finish gun and done in a steam cabinet. Light steaming and then letting it dry a few hours to get the rust started and then carded with dry 0000 steel wool and repeated 30 or 40 times. They come out looking like a shiny copper penny when done. Very neat looking but you have to lacquer them to stop the action.

I'm with dcpd, the 77 receivers are not that hard. The revolver hammers and triggers, however, are harder than woodpecker lips. In the late 80's I bought a Ruger 44 Blackhawk 5.5" blued revolver and sent it out to be CCH. It came back beautiful. I wish I could remember where I sent it.

I would trust no one but Turnbull for CCH 4140 steel; there is danger of getting it brittle if you use any traditional method. He has a secret method.

If my old Blackhawk 44 is brittle, it sure has held up well for over 30 years.

There is still a great danger of using traditional CCH methods on 4140 steel by introducing too much carbon into it at critical temp, and quenching it in water; as it already has plenty to harden. Turnbull has learned a new method.

I'll leave all that scientific stuff to you. I don't think they packed my frame in a box full of bone black and lizard tongues. Mines been fine for 30+ years.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
There is still a great danger of using traditional CCH methods on 4140 steel by introducing too much carbon into it at critical temp, and quenching it in water; as it already has plenty to harden. Turnbull has learned a new method.

I asked one of the local heat treaters here how he figured Turnbull was doing it. He wasn't sure but according to him it would make sense that he is probably running it in the tempering phase of the heat treatment and then lowering the temperature in the last hour or so just to the coloring temperature and then quenching it in an agitated bath. He figured that 4140 probably wouldn't show any cracking or warping if it was tempered over several hours and quenched under 600F. But, he said he had never tried anything so foolish and had no idea if it would actually work.

Of course he ain't telling anyone his process; all I know is that I have sent him several modern chrome moly steel actions/frames and they all turn out great and are definitely not hard.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Of course he ain't telling anyone his process; all I know is that I have sent him several modern chrome moly steel actions/frames and they all turn out great and are definitely not hard.

Yeah, I have seen several guns that they did including a pair of 700 Remingtons. No warps, no cracks, hard enough, not to hard and very purdy.

Several years before his death, Dr. Oscar Gady replied on Double Gun BBS in response to a question about coloring a gold inlaid frame. As I remember, his secret was to never heat the already hard and inlaid frame to critical temp but otherwise treat as any other color case harden. By staying below critical, the heat treatment was unaffected but the colors came out perfect. Suggest you inquire on Double Gun BBS. I believe many of the members saved everything Oscar posted.

I have those 3 articles buy Mr Geddy; I suspect Mr Turnbull has additional process/methods as his colors are much brighter than those achieved by the method used by Geddy, which is basically the ancient method of bone/wood charcoal and quench in aerated water. Just altered temps. As I said, only he knows and it is dangerous to play with
trying to case harden 4140 steel.

Agree'd. I am often amazed at the lack of basic understanding of low carbon steel, case hardened because it is composed of steel with such a low carbon content it can't be harden and tempered vs. 4140 which is a high carbon steel to begin with. I can't imagine bringing 4140 to critical (bright cherry red) and plunging it into a quench, locking in the molecular stresses which cause brittleness to the entire piece. Google up tube "instructional" videos. I'd be afraid I had created a bomb.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I have those 3 articles buy Mr Geddy; I suspect Mr Turnbull has additional process/methods as his colors are much brighter than those achieved by the method used by Geddy, which is basically the ancient method of bone/wood charcoal and quench in aerated water. Just altered temps. As I said, only he knows and it is dangerous to play with
trying to case harden 4140 steel.

I think the shade tree, moonshiners techniques used in those quicky-case hardening systems, or the little Brownells case hardening systems might differ just slightly in their nature, chemically. I see someone as persistent as Mr Turnbull who has been playing with this stuff for so long, just might have seen fit to cut through certain government restrictions to the contrary and may be playing with certain caustic and rat reducing compounds as arsenic and sodium cyanide. Like cold bluing and caustic bluing. One is simple, safe, cheap and does a shitty, temporary job. The other is complicated, dangerous, expensive and does a much better and much more permanent job.

The original method uses no hazardous chemicals; just bone and wood charcoal in varying proportions.
Melted cyanide will do it too, but that is like milking rattlesnakes.
It's very easy.
And also very difficult.
It's truly an art; not a science. But with high carbon chrome moly steel, it's a science.