Would a pre 64 model 70 action be suitable for a 338 Lapua mag build?

Thank you.
Wayne

I don't like that big 416 case in any conventional action. But I'm kinda funny that way! There are actions out there that are designed just for it. It's best to use one of those, but you're free to do whatever you want. Lot's of other people do put that case in conventional actions. Govern yourself accordingly.

416 Rigby has a max pressure of 47K psi. 338 Lapua has the same diameter and operates up to 61K psi.
Big difference and that is how you can safely put a 416 into most any action, and some people are leery of putting a 338 on any standard actions.
But a pre 64? No. They are too short anyway. And you still have that one inch barrel thread.

Tom basically hit the nail on the head. But it's not the pressure that kills the actions, it's the actual bolt thrust. The bolt thrust goes up with the size of the piston, or case head. It also goes up with the pressures. The actual 416 Rigby is at the very top end for what is safe in the conventional actions. To do it, they kept the actual operating pressures well below what normal magnum cartridges operate at. It really has about the same bolt thrust as the 300 Weatherby with factory loads. The Lapua cartridges and a lot of the short and ultra magnums bring the pressures up to conventional belted magnum pressures. That, in combination with the huge case head size, drives up the bolt thrusts to ludicrous levels. The bolt thrusts generated by factory 338 Lapua and the ultra and short magnums are far beyond recommended bolt thrusts recommended by SAMMI and CIP for high pressure proof testing rounds.

In the days of old. The manufacturers made most of their guns twice as strong as was needed to allow for poor runs of steel, bad runs of cartridges and customer oriented reloading idiocy. Now days, with modern steels and modern commercial loading practices they are taking advantage of the safer components and the modern manufacturing and pressing the edge of the envelope while still maintaining a pretty good margin for safety. No manufacturer however acknowledges or recognizes the fact that people reload their cartridges anymore. Their simple approach to it is that, if you blow yourself up with one of their guns and a hand loaded cartridge, it is beyond their control and liability.

Certainly not if it is a 300 H&H or 375 H&H as the bottom locking recess is cut back. The Pre 64 is a shorter action than the Post 63 action.

The Rigby has been mentioned and there is one big difference between the Lapua and Rigby. The 338 Lapua is about velocity and I think it is extremely unlikely a 338 Lapua owner would be using reduced loads. Remember that the Rigby with 400 grains at 2400 f/s is a reduced load.

Roughly speaking if you loaded a 338 Lapua back to the same extent as the Rigby then you would have about a 338 Winchester with top loads.

Then there is getting it feed. I would imagine gunsmith experience on converting Pre 64s to 338 Lapua or the Rigby/378 Wby case is about as close to zero as you can get.

Lastly, if this is a case of "because you have the action" and thus a perceived economy then start to think of cost of 338 Lapua brass, cost of developing loads to make the Lapua worthwhile as well as a suitable scope and the dollars will soon run up.

If you just want a big banger in 338 bore them a 338 RUM/Rem 700 or go the full distance and a Mark V in 338/378,I think like the 30/378 they come in the much cheaper Synthetic Mark V rifle.

If you pre 64 action is in top condition and original then you should be able to get good money for it as they a number one choice for the wood gun custom rifle.

Again, calibres like the 338 Lapua, the 300 and 338 RUMs and the 30/378 and 338/378 do not encourage reduced pressure loads, just the opposite and likely lead to lots of load development in the never ending chase for top velocity with top accuracy and with specific bullets.

In short, while a Pre 64 would not be my last choice of action for a 338 Lapua it would certainly be down there at the bottom of the pile.

One last point and I hope you don't take offence but if you have to ask the question them the 338 Lapua might not be a calibre of choice for you.

I've got 3 different 338s . The Lapua , Rem ultra mag Ackley and the 338 win mag . Out of the same oal length barrel the 338 win is only about 300fps slower . I'm only using a 26" barrel but I tested most bullet weights , yes I hurt , the point is don't follow every crazy new cal. . To top it off the 338 win mag was more accurate with a broad range of powders , bullets and velocity . I did have a few good groups with all but the win mag is my big gun , well almost . The other big one is the 375 Remington ultra mag Ackley , not enough shoulder left after 4 shots so it is going to be disassembled .

No , the pre or post 70 isn't the receiver to use . It's tenon is to small , length not suff.and bolt thrust will be at the or past the limits .
If you find a good large thread savage long action and use 41v50 chrome moly vanadium barrel you will have a very stout set up .
Just my $.02

No way. Too much bolt thrust.
If you want a CRF, there's the CZ550- and the price is "right" as well; least expensive of the actions I'm aware of spec'd to handle the .338L.

I've had discussions with a large Savage dealer, they will not sell their .338 actions even to FFL's (bastards) and state their magnum actions are not designed to handle it. Tried to get Brownell's to special order a 700 Lapua action from Remington for me; Rem told them they're so far backordered it was a "no".

So much for being able to get an off-the-shelf action, it's only the high-dolla clones...

I have an Armalite AR-30 (the first production one built) , and that action was specifically designed for the 338 Lap.

Savage has many 338 lapuas on its large action , it's available by itself but it's cheaper to buy the complete gun and sell the barrel , stock etc and install what you want . You may be perfectly happy with the factory set up .
Gary
Earlier I said 'large thread long action ' which eliminates the short ultra mag actions , I did forget about the sporter large thread long actions that were made for the std ultra mag . The action I'm referring to is the one with the slot for the ejection port .
The long target action has this set up .

The action Savage uses for their .338 Lapua rifles is NOT their standard magnum action.

It think after some problems Winchester increased their 1" thread diameter because of chamber problems with the WSMs.

An article written a fair while ago, I think by Lilja, spoke out against using Rem 700 for the 338/378 and barrel thread diameter. However, the Mark V Wby is same thread, however, the Rem 700 has an extra long thread and the Mark V is a very short thread.

I reckon the Mark V would be about the most tested action around and doubly so with the 30/378 being in the relatively cheap synthetic model. Some years ago I saw a post on AR where a bloke bought a 30/378 Synthetic and wanted to know if he could use the 4895 he had been using in his 30/06.

I guess from a purely technical point of view and assuming equal pressure the 338 Lapua would be a tiny (very tiny) bit less on the barrel thread because it is more tapered than the 338/378...

Thanks to all for the responses. I will definitely listen to your advice. I have been reloading for 50 years and have no problem with warm loads but I am not looking build something dangerous.

Wayne

quote:

Originally posted by Wayne74:
Thanks to all for the responses. I will definitely listen to your advice. I have been reloading for 50 years and have no problem with warm loads but I am not looking build something dangerous.

Wayne

I think the main thing is to ask yourself why you want a 338 Lapua. If it is just because you want a 338 Lapua and maybe being different by using a Pre 64 then fine. As you have reloaded for 50 years you will know what you are doing. There are plenty of people who have made 404 Jeffery and 4i6 Rigby on the Mark V Wby and with the Mark V deluxe stock and just for a shit stir.

But if you want a 338 Lapua for the full potential it offers then a Pre 64 is not the answer.

Nothing wrong with a 1917 Enfield/Remington Model 30 Express. Duane Wiebe makes custom bottom metal for them.

uhmm... it can fit, certainly (see my carts in my signature) but this is just the wrong chassis for a lapua -- the remington 700 in 338 is a NIGHTMARE to shoot, in a hunting rifle like trim, and if you are wanting a highly accurate, long range rig, the glacial locktime of the pre-64 wouldn't be my first choice.. or 10th

I went with the 338 RUM because of the smaller head diameter and reduced back thrust; get the same ballistics as my Lapua. I have built those on standard actions with no issues. Not a pre64 Win though. Still too short and need lots of opening up.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I went with the 338 RUM because of the smaller head diameter and reduced back thrust; get the same ballistics as my Lapua. I have built those on standard actions with no issues. Not a pre64 Win though. Still too short and need lots of opening up.

338 RUM is tops or the 300 or 375 RUM case to 338 depending on availability and whether you prefer to neck down or neck up one calibre size.

I have never been able to see the point of the 338 Lapua. To me if you are going with the big case head and expensive brass then go all the way to 338/378.

Might be different in America, I don't know but a plus of the 338/378 is brass since you have the choice also of 30/378 and 378 brass if need be but it is not like there is a 30 Lapua and 375 Lapua.

A lot of shooters in Australia think the 338 Lapua is the thing because they think it is the biggest 338 and seem unaware of the RUM case capacity.

You are right; there is no point to the 338 Lapua since the RUM came out, but it is the "big case envy" thing that sells them.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Gorilla Gunworks:
The action Savage uses for their .338 Lapua rifles is NOT their standard magnum action.

I didn't say it was , I thought I clarified that ! I did !

^^^
OK...you said "large action, it's available by itself..."
Took that to mean the standard large shank action.
I've talked with Jim at NSS about getting me the Lapua actions from Savage and he told me no way, they won't sell them to him.

So through whom can I purchase one, if not him (a large dealer)?

I know I can buy an entire rifle for a grand and use the action, but since I have no intention of using the stock I'd probably go with a Defiance or Stiller instead.

I bought or should say a friend brought me 2 , to build into the 338 Lapua and a spare that he wants to buil into a super 416 of some military origin .
That's why I did say it's cheaper to buy the entire rifle for $850-1000 and sell the remains parts and be into it for less . I tecently rebarreled a long PTA action and while not having the others here they are the same length , od and look similar . I doubt they (savage ) would change the ingredients of the receivers .???
The PTA long has the small oval ejectio port .
My friend is /was a savage rep who use to be found at every shot show I can remember , maybe friend is a bit too much . More than likely he liked my work and my free fee . ( I ask that money be donated to our local animal shelter )
Gary

I just tried savages web site , holly crap has it changed . When , it seems like just last month I used it . I guess not , prices are nuts , no more PTA listed SHORT or LONG . Why ?
Now I see . Custom actions are the answer . Does anyone know why , really . I've got 3-4 short PTA still unused but I would of liked to purchase the long .
Sorry . I was clearly out of date with my info .
Gary

338 Lapua, CZ550 Magnum Action, 30 inch Pac Nor heavy barrel 1.300" diameter at the breech.

Built as a long range elk rifle for steep canyon country.



Yep it has a brake.
Lapua on the left, 308 Win on the right.



If anyone is serious I still have the reamer. Cut one chamber. PTG with pilot bushing. And a headspace gauge. And a set of dies and some brass. Make me an offer if you want this stuff, I will never use it again.

I also have the 338 Rogue reamer, this is the 338 Lapua with a 37 degree shoulder. Also a PTG pilot bushing type. Cut one chamber. For sale also, make offer.

I think the Lapua is too much for most of us. My favorite elk gun is a 30-06 shooting Partitions.

I do have two 338 Win rifles, might be the ideal elk rifle. Both are accurate with 210 Partitions. Both rifles are destined to go to my son in law, he hunts the Snake River country.

quote:

Originally posted by WoodHunter:

I think the Lapua is too much for most of us. My favorite elk gun is a 30-06 shooting Partitions.

I have used the 338/378 and 378 a lot and they do need muzzle brakes if long range shooting from improvised rests. Even if you could not feel the recoil the physical movement of the rifle is too much without a muzzle brake.

Shooting off a bench is different as you have a very controlled position.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

quote:

Originally posted by WoodHunter:

I think the Lapua is too much for most of us. My favorite elk gun is a 30-06 shooting Partitions.

I have used the 338/378 and 378 a lot and they do need muzzle brakes if long range shooting from improvised rests. Even if you could not feel the recoil the physical movement of the rifle is too much without a muzzle brake.

Shooting off a bench is different as you have a very controlled position.

Yep.

And when you get old big recoil really hurts and easily may cause shoulder injuries. I am 70 and the big kickers are not my choice any more. The 'ol 30-06 shooting 160 grains works for me.

My ArmaLite 338 Lapua has the recoil of a 308. For real.