I was sampling some different finishes on a stock tonight to see what will look best (still have sanding to do, so no worries).

I noticed that when I rub in mineral spirits (not as a finish) that the wood takes on a darker/deeper color.

However, when testing the Velvit Oil and Spar Urethane, they both yield the exact same color as each other, but lighter, not as deep, not any red like the mineral spirits.

The wood I'm using is black walnut from Utah. Not that attractive, but hard and stable for a Mannlicher.

Question - does the Mineral Spirits appear darker/deeper because it penetrates better?

So do I need to:

1. Thin whatever I decide the finish the stock with Mineral Spirits?

2. Using a pre-colored finished like Red Mahogany from Watco's or Velvit?


I really would like to avoid using a separate stain in addition to sealing/finishing the wood.

Originally I had planned to seal it with the Spar Urethane (probably dilute 50/50) and the finish with 50/50 diluted TruOil or Velvit oil.

Now I'm questioning if I should just start with a Red Mahogany finish and use it from start to finish.

It is the 'wetting' ability of the mineral spirits that give the darker finish. If you got some Tung oil, which has the best wetting ability of any of the finishing oils, and use that as the base for your finish you will get the best natural colouring of the grain. Tung oil cut 50/50 with your thiner will get the best out of your stock timber.

Thanks! Any recommendations on Tung oil brand?

I like your tag line. I look back now and which I had done a 7x57 long ago - I don't think I would have ever gotten into .308 winchesters or my 8x57. However, I did decide on a 404 for my step up from a 375 H&H. Life it to short to be beaten to death by recoil.

I dont know about the US, but here in NZ, there are specialist paint supply stores and they get in pure Tung oil and I would expect that any pure oil would, or should, be pure oil and brand should not effect quality.
Any time is a good time to step up to the 7x57.

i use low gloss formbys, but that's about all i can find

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
i use low gloss formbys, but that's about all i can find

Wouldn't high gloss knocked back down be better? I heard somewhere the flating agents in low gloss product have some adverse effects, but for the life of me I can't remember why.
Don

never found any adverse effects.. the finish is still to shinny for me if applied just by hand. i like a very dull finish which i get by taking 400 grit sandpaper, dipping it into the oil and "sanding" the finish on. usually about 8 coats or so after the pore filling ones

I use thinned (usually thinned by heating) teak oil. It penetrates deep and really brings out the color contrast in the wood.

In fact, pre-wetting the stock with mineral spirits or turpentine aids in the penetration of any oil. Start off with a warmed stock, apply thinner then oil. Do not dry under heat which is greater than the level the stock was pre-heated to. It will cause bubbles in the final finish.

Not a professional, have only refinished 8 stocks, but I am not a big fan of truoil. I have had better luck using a combo of Watco's Teak Oil and Formby's tung oil, 2 to 1.
Formbys (best of my memory) has a little urethane in it. My last stock refinish was american walnut with redish streaks in it. The teak combo darkens the wood a little and in my opinion, gives it a deeper look. This mixture does take a little longer to dry than Truoil. Weathers better and lasts longer than my stocks finished with Truoil. Again, my opinion.

Velvit oil -- forget all the panther piss and snake oil concoctions.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Velvit oil -- forget all the panther piss and snake oil concoctions.

The Velvit oil didn't bring out the color like the mineral spirits. Assume you are suggesting the Mahogany Velvit Oil?

How does the spirits look after a couple days?

Straight spirits evaporate after a few minutes.

I did use my Velvit oil natural and it was no different from the spar.

So I could either thin the Velvit real heavy and slowly reduce the thinning as I build it the seal; or try the Mahogany.

Austin Hunter, your questions deals with both the molecular make up of the wood and the finish. I am doing a sample test now for a client similar to what you are doing. I have seven different "oil" concoctions for the client to choose from.

Here is what I have found in 30 years of refinishing gunstocks....NO TWO gunstocks finish to the exact color with the same finish. There are always...yes, always....some differences. Mineral spirits are chemically made up of petroleum by products. The exact mixture will change from batch to batch but still be within the classification set for "Mineral Spirits". This means your sample will contain some part that allows the color you like to show up better when you apply it to this particular piece of wood. Try another different piece of wood and you should see something else show up better...maybe a green color or an orange the other wood lacked. The same goes for the different finishes. The current sample piece has some suttle orange and green colors that just pop under one finish but go to a muddy appearance with three others. One makes none of the colors show and it has a hickory stick color which is not acceptable to my client.

I have found that sometimes adding the spirit stain to the finish will allow me to achieve the look the client sees when putting Mineral Spirits onto the wood. That has proven to be the case with this exercise. I have...I believe...successfully found three different finishes of the seven that would be acceptable to the client...I have to wait till he instructs me on that one. Do not make up a lot of thefinish/coloration mix. Make up only what you will use on the scrap test pieces first. That way you will not have to buy more finish for the next project. Mix only what you will use during that session. You can use a baby food jar or similar small glass container for this purpose...do not use plastic...it tends to bleed chemicals into the finish and that too changes the color.

Dennis Earl Smith
The Stock Doctor

Using mineral spirits, I have certainly seen what you describe, AH.

It makes me wonder if the most beautiful finish would be many, many coats of extremely thinned oil, such as tung or teak.

Dennis, is the stuff you are using thinned way down?

Not at all. I have found from experience that the pentration factor is the same no matter how thin you make the stuff. Now, the oil in most finish is a carrier agent only for the stuff that hardens later. Thinning it will cause you to work harder/longer at getting the desired finish you seek. One thing in favor of Tru-Oil (I don't like it by the way) it dries fast and hard if applied thinly. The oil finishes of old still do not penetrate further than .020 into the wood. Just cut one open and see. IF the stock has many coats over many years the oil will soak into the wood farther. This doesn't equate protection from weather and elements...just more oil in the wood to remove before you may restore the stock to somewhat original color and glory. I have one English stock set that is still bleeding oil from the pores after six months of trying to remove it all. Using many different mediums of oil removal...nothing successful as of yet....but I am stubborn and will prevail.