I have heard in discussions concerning Browning wood stocks as to salt wood or non salt wood.



What is this?


Cal30

back in the day the 60's Browning had Sako building their rifles and Sako used stocks that were cured with salt water (if I remember right) or something like that anyhow one thing it rusted the heck out of the rifles, if they were not taking care of properly...

I believe that the wood was dried by packing it in salt to quickly draw out the moisture.
That resulted in some salt being absorbed by the wood. That resulted in excessive rusting of guns after the wood was made into gun stocks. It was a problem with Browning shotguns, as far as I know.

what df06 said...
salt is a dessicant, and browning decided to utilize some blanks that had been "Dried" by using NaCl salt ... the result was that the wood was both basic and contained these salts ... salts attract moisture, in a basic environment, rust things

I wonder if the real story of this will ever come to light. Calico Hardwood in California was furnishing most blanks to Browning (I know nothing about a Sako connection).

I once was a Browning dealer and the rep told me that Calico either just decided to use the "salt" curing or convinced Browning this was good.

Calico people had a different slant. They say that the salt was used at the direcrtion of Browning.

I know for a fact that Calico was selling salt cured wood because I got stuck with a bunch of it.

Suspect wood can be tested with a 10% solution of silver nitrate. If salt, a nice white "bloom" will result.

Lots of guns have been ruined!

Thanks for the info



Cal30

Would anyone know the years that involved Calico with this salt wood.
I still have a blank from them that I purchased in '77.
Thanks,
Bob

You're probably OK, but if you could test it, you might feel better

Thanks, I looked up that 10% silver nitrate solution and its quite expensive.
Any other "juice" that would accomplish the results.

glass the inletting ?

Taste it?

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:
I wonder if the real story of this will ever come to light. Calico Hardwood in California was furnishing most blanks to Browning (I know nothing about a Sako connection).

I once was a Browning dealer and the rep told me that Calico either just decided to use the "salt" curing or convinced Browning this was good.

Calico people had a different slant. They say that the salt was used at the direcrtion of Browning.

I know for a fact that Calico was selling salt cured wood because I got stuck with a bunch of it.

Suspect wood can be tested with a 10% solution of silver nitrate. If salt, a nice white "bloom" will result.

Lots of guns have been ruined!

I live near Calico and I have been it and out of the place quite a few times. The former manager recently retired but he was a pretty friendly guy. I once asked him about the salt wood thing. He stated that it was not "salt" as in rock salt(as has been reported) but rather a chemical that left salt in the wood. He said that Browning required the wood to be so treated and that they specified the chemical that was used.

It seems a bit odd. Like Duane said, I doubt we will ever know the truth.

Manhassett - Just ring up your local High School Science dept and tell them you have a high quality piece of wood - just don't mention the word "GUN" - and would appreciate them trying out a drop of their Lab AgNO3 on the wood.

Duane Wiebe ; Has posted the version of the story I have also heard .As to it's authenticity

I know of no way to verify Calico Ever did this Cure method according too the company this was a

unfounded rumor which nearly ruined them .


They supplied more than just Browning with stocks .

CALI’CO Hardwoods is proud to have supplied wood for these and many other fine guns:
Benelli
Beretta
Browning
Fabarm
Holland & Holland
Kimber
Kreighoff
Miroku New SKB
Parker Reproduction
Remington
Ruger
Sako
Sauer
Weatherby
Winchester

As the salt cure method is and has been passe for quite some time !.

All is well with their stock blanks now and have been for many many years .

http://www.calicohardwoods.com/


This was discovered very early about the " Morton Cure " method .

Of course, salt that is impregnated into wood is a hygroscopic chemical itself. Most naturally occurring extractives are not highly hygroscopic, so they do not have the same effect as salt. As far as salt goes, there was a process called Morton Cure that was patented and provided a way to dry wood by salt impregnation. Unfortunately, the salt does rapidly corrode fasteners and at high RHs, the wood gets wet.



This is totally unrelated too GunStock blanks or properly cured wood .
An extreme example is a company I am working with now that is drying estuary salvaged timbers. The salt gained over the years of soaking in the brackish water initially made the use of electrical moisture meters useless, as the salt influenced the electrical resistance. But more to the current subject, the salt and resin content drastically increased the EMC. The MC which they have to dry to is greater than the normal 6-8%. The salt holds onto more water at the same RH and temperature than normal wood. We are there for chemically extracting the salts by solution soaking and E back direct vent drying extraction .

THE REAL STORY ON GUNSTOCKS SALT CURED !.

(In "Drying Eastern Hardwood Timber" [U.S. Dept. of Agriculture Handbook No. 528] a salt paste is described for seasoning large disks. Again, there is a problem with corrosion of metal in contact with the wood, plus the bleeding of the wood at high humidities. The process is called chemical seasoning. Morton's Salt has a patent on it and it was called Morton's Cure . It was used for gunstocks in WW II, and there were corrosion problems in the Pacific theater. Several lawsuits followed but I do not know the outcome.)

It's not in the financial best interest of a supplier to pass on defective

materials especially a specialized market such as Gun Stock blanks or other wise .


P S FYI ; A fully recognized method of Air curing timber was placing them inside Limestone caves

however the lumber it's self didn't touch the caves and the caves temperature was stable

as was it's RH . Results were Excellent drying with little too no degrading .

Obviously with new technology in rapid moisture removal at elevated temp. this is no longer used !.

60's and possibly early 1970's vintage Browning T bolt 22 rimfire guns were a main victim of the salt cured stocks. Browning used to have a policy of replacing the T bolt stocks up into the late 80's anyhow if not later.

Doc

How does PEG fit into this picture. Is PEG a salt?

PEG=Poly ethelene glycol

Rich

Richj ; Chemical formula for PEG ; HO-CH2-(CH2-O-CH2-)n-CH2-OH

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/p5029.htm

NO as it's slightly acidic too Neutral in it's pure form . Having a 5-7 PH value .


airgun1 ; Do you know where or from whom those stocks came from ?. I've tried several times over the years

to pin down the source of those " Salted Stocks " and must admit without any real success !.

I got a couple partly inletted stocks from Fajen in the late 60's that were salt cured. After a couple years, I noticed they were rusting the steel they touched. I called Fajen about them and they said they did have some salt probems with some wood and they would replace them. The wood they sent for replacement was stunning, several grades higher than what I originally purchased. I did have to finish the inletting and shaping again but figured the much nicer wood was worth it.

I recently sent a salt gun, 20 ga Superposed, to Browning for an evaluation. The receiver was in pretty nice condition with very little corrosion. The barrels were pitted and I wanted to know if they were salvageable. Only wanted to know if they were okay to use as they would be polished out and then the gun restocked and reblued. Mechanically, it appeared excellent. I got the gun from the owner who claimed he bought it new awhile ago.

Well, I got a quote back and called Browning service back. I got a quote for:

Shipping and insurance (no problem) $22.71
"Place gun in proper condition...parts... 280.00
Fit new barrels 2200.00
Fit new stock 975.00
Fit new forend 795.00
Reblue gun 280.00
Engraving 240.00

Total $4792.71

Wow! I think I could buy a new in the box Belgian 20 for less than that.

They did say they checked for the warranty and said none had been filed. I asked about reducing some prices for dealer discount and they refused. I asked about eliminating some of the items, the new wood and reblue. Their answer was "no way, we do it all or nothing". I told them to "send the phuquing thing back.

I did not expect them to do it for nothing. Now, is there a fool out there who would agree to have that work done?

Jim

Jim may I inquire as too the approximate age of said shotgun ?.

It is a known fact that the " Morton Cure " method would in fact retain more moisture content

than a properly kiln dried method . In addition to the salt migration retaining more


MC it's also corrosive .

The salt that is impregnated into wood is a hygroscopic chemical itself which leaches at elevated

temp. and humidity !.


Makes NO SENSE why anyone would use this method now days or purchase wood treated in this manner !.

I wish they would get their story straight..

I had a Safari Grade Browning on a FN Mauser action in 300 Win Mag. Put it in my farthers gun cabinet in 1969. Wen to Viet Nam. then came back to work on Ak pipe line for a couple years. Then went to college. In 1980 i went home and took the Browning (no puns) out of the stock and it was eatten up under the stock. IE salt wood. I sent it back to Browning ad was told it would cost $700 plus dollars to repair. I said thanks but no thanks. Browning said they repaired or replaced the guns for free for 10 years but that period had expired. They did not want to return my gun to me. I had to hise a lawyer to get my gun back. I traded the gun for a loss and swore I would never buy another Browning. I was told they bought rafts of wood that was floated to the mill down a river that became salt water. That was what Browning told me in 1980.

LongShot

Hmmmm. . . the "dependable" story I've heard is that Browning stored stock blanks in an abandoned salt mine in order to both preserve and cure them. Supposedly, those that went in drier came out sooner and showed much less salt absorbsion than those that went in wetter and stayed longer. The veracity of this story is approximately equal to the amount you paid to hear it.

Found this thru a google search:

[url=http://www.artsgunshop.com/Salt/Salt_Article-page-1.htm]

Link does not seem to work but if you get to arts gun shop site it there.

Now here is the correct version with the exception of a " New Process " it wasn't new nor was it

ever recommended by knowledgeable wood purveyors !. Deals were made alright BAD BAD DEALS !.

WW2 some stocks were in short supply and in order to meet demand " Morton Cure " or Salting was used

and sever problems arose from that mistake . However rusting corrosion wasn't a primary concern

of the Military back then . Supplying Arms was it's primary concern !.

here is the link which EVERYONE of us should read .


http://www.artsgunshop.com/Sal...t_Article-Page-1.htm