I picked this up at the gunshow this weekend in Atlanta. It's a 1931 Mexican machined down like a G33/40. I'm trying to decide what chambering this needs to be and right now I'm thinking either .257 roberts or 6.5x55, but a 9.3x57 would be neat also.

It's going to be in a full length stock. Mucho hours of work ahead

Weagle

( i am certain you know this stuff)
it's a mexican 1910, but the leftside lightening cut made it sort of look like a large ring, the right side shows clearly it's a small ring.
1931 is the made year, not model


I do have a question, the lightening cuts LOOK (not saying they are) really close to the ring/under cutting it... it that just a trick of the angle and nothing to worry about?

here's a pic of the one mark and daune have been working on

Someone did alot already. Never seen one machined like a G33/40. Should be nice. I'd go with the 6.5x55.

Looks like a nice action you found there! SHould be just the ticket for a nice, trim sporter. Bruce Russel had one he did like that and put a Damascus Q rib and scope bases on it. The pics of it were in several publications. I have seen a handful of others from time to time.

I have shortened a couple of 1910 Mexicans and made the cuts like on your action. I really like the Mexican action to begin with, and the cuts like your has just makes them better!

Looks like we have similar ideas on guns-I have a 1936 Mex that will be a Mannlicher stocked 6.5x55. Also planning on making a 9x57 on a Mex in full Teutonic style. Have you thought about the 9x57? Not really as practical as the 9.3 version, but very classy and historic.

Who is doing the work for you? Please post pics when it is done.

Refer to page 39 of the July/August 2007 issue of Peterson's Rifle Shooter Magazine for a look at Photos of an absolutely gorgeous small ring Mexican by Shane Thompson.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
( i am certain you know this stuff)
it's a mexican 1910, but the leftside lightening cut made it sort of look like a large ring, the right side shows clearly it's a small ring.
1931 is the made year, not model


I do have a question, the lightening cuts LOOK (not saying they are) really close to the ring/under cutting it... it that just a trick of the angle and nothing to worry about?

Thanks for the clarification. I'm a little dyslexic on the years and models.

The cuts on yours appear to be basically the same as on mine, but the lighting is poor on my photo. The one I have does have the front recoil lug milled back though. I don't know if that's what you are asking about. I'll get a better photo so you can see if there's an issue I should be concerned about.

The work was done by a local gunsmith that is now retired. I've gotten to know him pretty well so he does some light work for me like installing barrels.

Basically on this one I need a new bolt handle (I love the looks of that one on Jeffoso's), a low safety, slim down the trigger guard. pick a barrel and fit it into that stock.

I'm planning for this one to be a little more than the knock-around sporter that I usually build.

Weagle

Here's a close up of the cut under the front ring. Does it look like it's done correctly?

Thanks.

Weagle

yep, looks fine!

yep!! in the top pic, which is why i asked, it looked like it was just "Carried through"
jeffe

Weagle

very nice.. and if you want I'll give that white line spacer a decent burial.

quote:

Originally posted by richj:
Weagle

very nice.. and if you want I'll give that white line spacer a decent burial.

Yep, The white spacer and most of that monte carlo will go bye-bye .

Weagle

quote:

Originally posted by weagle:
Here's a close up of the cut under the front ring. Does it look like it's done correctly?

Thanks.

Weagle

[IMG]

http://aycu25.webshots.com/image/21064/2003312606543283065_rs.jpg[/IMG]

How the heck would Jeffe know? Seriously, has he done this before???

Marc, I have thought about the 9x57 as well. I currently have:

257 roberts built on a VZ 24
7x57 built on a 1909 argentine
35 whelen built on a commercial banner FN
8x57 BRNO 22F

I also have a Zastava 7mm mag that will be converted to .375 ruger.

This is going to take some pondering.

Weagle

Hey Jeffe,
Any idea on where that bottom metal came from on the Weibe Mex mauser? Very nice....

I was thinking 257 Rob or 250 Sav for mine. I also have been thinking of that 9x57 as Jim Wisner has one he likes for shooting cast - don't know what it's on however.
Jeff Pfeifer

quote:

Originally posted by Pfeifer:
Hey Jeffe,
Any idea on where that bottom metal came from on the Weibe Mex mauser? Very nice....

I was thinking 257 Rob or 250 Sav for mine. I also have been thinking of that 9x57 as Jim Wisner has one he likes for shooting cast - don't know what it's on however.
Jeff Pfeifer

I'll beat Jeffe to the punch. That's Blackburn metal you see in the picture.

I read a post Jim wrote not long ago about shooting cast bullets in a mauser. If I remember correctly he said it was a M96.

Weagle, that's a really neat action.

Terry

can never have too many 257 Roberts, I have 3 now & have had as many as 7 at 1 time. Your current guns are missing a 270 or 30'06.

quote:

Originally posted by tom ga hunter:
can never have too many 257 Roberts, I have 3 now & have had as many as 7 at 1 time. Your current guns are missing a 270 or 30'06.

.257 roberts makes me smile. .270 & 30.06 = yawn & snore

Weagle

Hello Weagle

Boy am I envious - I have a 98 small ring action (a VZ 33) away at a NZ smith (Allan Carr) at the moment having a bolt handle job done, and its going to be a 257 also. I've been a 7x57 fan for 25 years now but I'm getting that darn't excited about trying something new I'm like a 6 year old at Christmas waiting for it to happen. I haven't been so enthusiatic about a new rifle ever I don't think. Long and short is that your pictures are just winding me up that little bit more. Congratulations, I hope you can make it into something really nice.

Cheers - Foster

PS I just arranged today to visit Geoff Slee, an Australian stockmaker (I tried several folks in the US to no avail) when I'm over there in late August, so hopefully thats a stock sorted - I'm taking a balnk with me in anticipation !!

I'm 90% sure I'm going with the .257 roberts. Seems like a Svelte action deserves a svelte cartridge.

Weagle

Gotta love 257 Roberts rifles. I have a pair of them.
When my Step Dad came home from WWII, with a footlocker full of Mauser M-98 and Springfield actions , the first rifle he had built was a 257 Roberts, on a 98 action.

Don

well,
I've got or had mexican mausers (limitted to 3.15")
458 winmag
376 steyr
358 win
308
7x57
257 rob

the 376 or the 358 are proably my fav...
now, a 9,3x57 would be awesome, too

I've decided to go with the .257 roberts in spite of Jeffe making my mind go round in circles.

I'd like a nice slim profile barrel. Any suggestions on a specific make and profile # ?

Weagle

I think that's a wise choice.

Going big on the small package is a waste of a petite action. By the time you hang the heavy barrel on it you may as well have used an intermediate action which abound at a fraction of the price.

As to your barrel, I'd have it custom made to maximize your potential for a complete rifle that has proper proportions. Most factory contours are designed around the LR Mauser and look too big on the SR action and the balance ends up all wrong.

Any of the "big name" barrel makers will work well. I use mostly Shilen, but also Lilja and Krieger. But there is nothing magic about any of them. What is important is how the barrel is fit and chambered.

Whatever brand you go with, I would get the smallest profile they make. I have a Krieger in the smallest sporter contour on a .257 I am building now. Oh, it is 22" long too.

Hello Weagle

I did a lot of research and thinkg about profiles for my 257 Small ring and ordered a Walther Lothar barrel in their Barvarian Classic taper. To fit this it'll be cut off in front of the shoulder for the large ring. While I wouldn't necessarily recomend a W/L barrel (necessary in my case due to budget and the difficulty of getting barrels from the US) I think this tapper has a lot to recomend it.

Its quite different from usual light weight US profile styles in that it carries a greater percentage of its weight at the muzzle (from memory its .630 at the muzzle) while retaining an modest overall weight estimated at 2 lbs 2 oz.

I'm hoping this will give me a much better balanced lightweight than those I've tried based on a very slim muzzle diameter. The overall effect should be something like a slightly lighter Brno Model 21 ( I think you have one of these ??)

Cheers - Foster

Thanks, I'd like this rifle to end up in basically the same configuration as my BRNO 22F so I'll be checking out the barrel recommendations for the light sporter contour. Also the stock I have has a lot of extra wood that will be thinned down.

Weagle

I have always thought why not make this cuts on Mexican. Glad too see some one was thinking like myself.

I have a Mexican 1936 rifle that is chambered in ,243 and the is a radius cut on the last 1/8" of the receiver down to the barrel diameter of 1.15". Is this a safe thing? (never shot it yet). I assume it was done to remove pits as I have two Mexican actions that are really pitted in that area.

Can you post a pic for us Siam? I think I understand what you are describing, but not positive.

Unable to post a picture of the actual gun as it is up at the cabin. However here is very crude drawing of what I have.

Weagle,

I'll second the Walther recommendation. Who are going to use to put it together? I'm leaning towards putting a Walther on the 09 that I bought from you. Really leaning towards 7x57. I'm not unsure of which smith I will use. I had Roger Ferrell build a 9.3x62 and like his work. I also like some of the work I've seen on here.

Interesting choice Tentman--happen to have a VZ33 sporting a Lothar 23" barrel, .580 @the muzzle.

257 Roberts.

Just needs a nice piece of wood to replace the synthetic stock...

Hello Tom

I sweated blood to get a VZ-33 action I was happy with, and now have mine back from the smith after the first stage of the work - a new bolt handle (I'll post this up in a separate thread once I've a photo to hand).

The thing that really gets me now though is the weight. Who would think that a genuine plain vanilla VZ-33 with Leupold STD bases (1225 grams) would be only 1/2 an oz less in weight than a std Brno mauser (1240 grams)- both with bottom metal.

If I'd known the weight would be so close I don't think I'd have bothered. Sure I know it will be some lighter due to small shank etc, and will also allow a slimmer stock but I think I'll stick to large rings from now on.

I'm going to spec my barrel at 23 to 23.5 too, if only so it looks "right" - I'll leave it long until its stocked up, and then prune it.

Cheers - Foster

The real weight savings comes from the barrel. You can save a good amount but more importantly, it will look right. A typical 21" barrel with .550 muzzle will weigh in right at 2 lbs. That, and as you said the overall slimmer profile.

Same thing for the Mexican small ring 98's, they weigh the same as a standard mauser. But, compare the finished weights and you'll be glad yuou went through the trouble.

This is perfect timing! I just got a new postal scale and have been weighing anything I can get on top of it-dead batteries, rocks, house keys, empty coffee cups, rifles, whatever.

OK, here are some fresh numbers. All weights are in ounces

1910 stripped bolt 8.8
std. M98 bolt 9.0

1910 stripped action 15.2
G33/40 stripped action 13.4
VZ24 stripped action 15.5

Something else to consider is that the Mex will have a lighter firing pin, firing pin spring, magazine, floorplate, shorter stock, and thinner stock. Also, the Mex has metal around the rear tang that the standard M98 does not have. If you sculpt the Mex to look like a regular M98, then you save more weight. If you mill it like the action in this thread, you save even more weight. Combine these with a slender stock and barrel, and you have made a rifle that is much lighter than the typical rifle abuilt around a standard M98.

I like to build true fly-weight rifles from time to time. I like this because to me, there is nothing in the world like hunting Alpine game. The first time I saw a goat on top of a mountain, I was hooked. In order to build true fly-weight rifles (weight~5# 8oz), you have to cut ounces. You cut ounces by taking them off .1oz at a time. It all adds up, and every tenth matters.

I weighed the mexican G33/40 clone and it weighs 2 lbs 12 oz complete as pictured above with bolt, trigger, bottom metal etc.

The stripped action weighs 13 oz

Weagle

FWIW a 1909 is 17oz even.

Marc: I thought there was a 4oz spread betwixt the vz/g33 and a large ring 98.

Have an example of each but they are both barreled...and don't want to unscrew them to check--my weight info comes from an old article espousing the VZ for a 7# mountain hunting rifle and pegging the action weight at 40oz.

Does the cocking piece on the 36 Mex add an ounce or two?

Tentman: are you comparing the VZ to a small ring Brno?

The rub that kinda got me (post assembly of course), was finding out that you need a long scope to bridge over the stripper clip slot for a good fit (fit to me, that is) and that adds a few more ounces... I can't really get a 10 or 11oz scope like a 2-7 or 2.5-6 Lupy to fit well on the VZ--using the lightest of rings/mounts as extention rings add weight, too--plus ugly.

I didn't measure it but a quick eyeballing of the the Mex 36,G33,FN (Browning's)small ring, & commercial 98 sez the ring spacing is the largest on the the military 98, then the Mex, then commercial 98 and the least goes to the FN (Browning)small ring.

Which is a lot of splitting hairs really, but comes into the mix when you are looking for a really lightweight 98 package.

Just got some more weights. When I say an action is "stripped," it is totally stripped-no trigger, bolt stop, nothing. Weight in ounces.

1936 Mexican 14.5
1908 Brazilian 15.7
1909 Argentine 16.0
G33/40 w/charger hump milled off 12.9

Blackburn bottom metal for Mexican (#10) 10.1
Blackburn bottom metal for std. M98 (#9) 10.2

I have some health problems and can't disassemble anything. When I am better able, I will weigh a lot of different parts and post them on the Mauser dimension sticky on this forum. I weighed a lot of things when working with Remingtom long and short Titanium actions. I'll dig it out and compile it on a seperate sheet if anyone wants to see ways to save weight for Alpine rifles. Alpine hell! I used my sheep rifle for much of my deer hunting last year. The older I get the more I like a well balanced light rifle. I find them easier to carry and easier to shoot, especially offhand.

Man my new scale is cool!!!

Hello Again

My comparison was Brno Small Ring VZ-33 to Brno Large Ring (no bases - model is not marked, I think it is an ex Israeli one where they ground out all the marks, this probably means is is a Brno "Nazi" era production, late WWII). Please note that I specified the small ring action had Leupold STD bases attached, these weight almost exactly 2 oz, the point being there is only a set of bases difference.

Ofcouse as I pointed out (and also by Marc) when barreled up, the small shank action will gain a weight advantage even with a similar profile barrel.

I think chasing a really lightweight rifle on a 98 action is a bit pointless, and I disagree with Marc here, I think that in mountain hunting (well the sort we do here in NZ anyway) a really light rifle with less than perfect balance is a lot harder to shoot well with if you've had to make a fast 1000' climb, or run across a gully, and are breathing hard!! For this reason I'm thinking lightweight at 7 lbs - 7 1/4 lbs scoped.

Cheers - Foster

Marc:

Hope you get healthy!

I really appreciate the weight postings--thanks. Would be most interested on the weights you have on the Rem TI long and short. Did you post those before?

Yeah Tentman, but pointless is sure a long way, especially with 98s...was pondering 6.5# all up, as the FN SR action complete goes 37 ounces with its aluminum bottom metal. It would take a 2# barrel, MPI stock at 18oz, & 11 oz scope.

But that said, my backpack rifle is a TI which goes 6# all up, and sports a #3 24" barrel for the very reasons you stated...