...and not look too shabby?

Specifically, I am wondering if a group of adult students could assemble and finish some kits like this:


In a weekend, including both the wood and metal parts? OH, and have a finished product that is not embarrassing to look at. Not to sound snarky, but if I were to offer something like this there would be more interest in a one weekend class as opposed to a two weekend class.

Has anyone had some experience with projects like these? Something along the lines of Saturday morning spent sanding then applying a finish to the stock, afterwards doing the metalwork (I am thinking a hot water blue like Belgian blue or Dicropan IM but I have never used either) and just continuing to work on everything needed as finishes dry. Then Sunday afternoon the finished rifle can be test fired and sighted in.

Anyway, would this as a weekend project be realistic or a recipe for disaster? If it is practical, what finishes do people recommend for both the wood and the metal? For the stock, I am also comfortable with something that gives an acceptable finish for the weekend but also something that can continue to be worked on and refined once they get home.

Thanks!

Mark

It depends on how well you all play together. Sounds like a made for TV reality show project.

Two long days could get that level of kit done. All the parts are pre-fitted that take the most labor.

I'd order a can of spray finish from Brownell's. I think they have one already containing a walnut stain. What I can't speak to is the cold blues. I could rust blue that barrel very nicely in about 7 hours, though.

The lock, trigger plate, trigger guard and butt plate are either already polished or blued/colored. The only thing I can't tell from the image is if the under rib and barrel are drilled and tapped for assembly. Based on the degree of completion of the rest of the kit, I'd say yes. So really, with more than one person and a good plan all you would have to do on Sunday is assemble the finished parts.

If you plan on test fire/sight in for Sunday afternoon, that leaves 1 1/2 days for assembly and finish. Possible, depending on the skill level of the students. But I think you'd be cutting it close.

If that's a CVA kit, I gan gar-an-dam-tee you nothing will fit out of the box. It may look nice an polished, but it will not fit without some "fitting". Statement based on personal experience with three CV kits, 2 Kentucky, and 1 Hawken. If your group has basic mechanical skills, and can work as a team, expect around 24 man-hours to finish.

If you are looking for the most complete kit, that is the simplest to finish with the best results, talk to Jim Chambers. I'd estimate his kits at 96-97%, needing only some minor clean up in the corners of the inlets and then polishing/finish work. And the inletting is very very good, nearly press in fit. And the parts are of a much higher quality. Time depends on finish and drying time, rusting times but to get to the applying finish stage 15-20 hours. Downside is the additional cost of the kits, they are several hundred more than Lyman or CVA kits.

The Lyman kits I would estimate at 85% complete but with the caveat that the pre-inlets aren't really good but are average if you can stand some minor gaps. Probably 25 or more hours if you actually plan to get everything right.

The CVA kits I would estimate at 80% or less complete and the inlets usually require quite a bit of work to fix. I don't think you could get a good finished product out of one without a considerable amount of work to fix the problems, more than a weekends worth of work.

Hope that helps.

Colin

I think that's optimistic. There's a saying, "You can have it cheap, correct, & fast. Pick which two you want to have."

My father ordered a CVA Hawken kit and it required some very time consuming fit & finish work. It was a long time ago so maybe they are better now but virtually every piece had some material that needed to be filed off, sanded etc. The stockwork alone took some real time to do well. If you spend extra $$$ to get a kit that is closer to finished it will cut down on time.

I find such kits take 2 to 3 times longer then one thinks.

Thanks for all the input guys, your thoughts help solidify that it should be a 2 weekend workshop.

Not only will it allow more time for individual fitting, but then the stock could be taken home for the week and given a more thorough finish and drying time.

The second weekend could then be focused on the metal finish and final assembly details and no time pressure to get everything completed.

Thanks all!


Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Mike in Michigan:
If that's a CVA kit, I gan gar-an-dam-tee you nothing will fit out of the box. It may look nice an polished, but it will not fit without some "fitting". Statement based on personal experience with three CV kits, 2 Kentucky, and 1 Hawken. If your group has basic mechanical skills, and can work as a team, expect around 24 man-hours to finish.

quote:

Originally posted by CowboyCS:

The CVA kits I would estimate at 80% or less complete and the inlets usually require quite a bit of work to fix. I don't think you could get a good finished product out of one without a considerable amount of work to fix the problems, more than a weekends worth of work.

Hope that helps.

Colin

Thanks Mike and Colin,

Yes I am planning on using one of the CVA Hawken kits, there are 2 different models and right now, haven't decided which one to choose as that is probably the simplest of the issues at this time!

I would choose another brand. My CVA mainspring lasted about 3 shots. It was so soft that after that it "took a set" to the point it wouldn't move the hammer enough to ignite the cap.

Thanks for the input AC!

Actually I was in a hurry and meant to say Traditions, and not CVA, my bad. Guess I should just keep myself focused on fixing my riding mower and not keep finding excuses to sit in the air conditioning...

Are you talking about several people finishing one kit working as a group or 1 kit per person ?
1. Go with the Hawken kit, the kentucky rifle kit has a 2 piece stock and can be a little tricky for a beginner. Unless something has changed, the brass nose cap and trigger guard are sand cast and will require some finishing. I have assembled several of the Kentucky kits along with a TC Hawken kit. TC kit had a blued barrel. CVA does not, but with the right equipment you can brown the barrel over a 5 to 6 hour time period. Two days is a rush, 4 would get it done nicely if you have the right tools.

plumb brown by birchwood casey works creat -- and if you want it blacked, boil it .. in fact, i would boil all small bits and make black.. then wd-40

rattle can finish works fine for a 2 day project -- dries fast!

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Two long days could get that level of kit done. All the parts are pre-fitted that take the most labor.

What I can't speak to is the cold blues. I could rust blue that barrel very nicely in about 7 hours, though.

The lock, trigger plate, trigger guard and butt plate are

A proper muzzleloader is not blued, but "browned".

Simply eliminate the boiling steps of rust bluing, then wipe it down W/boiled lindseed oil when you get the color you want.

Bead blasting the surfaces will speed up the browning.