Just how difficult is this to do, especially without a lathe? With patience and a plenty of cutting fluid, is it doable by hand? I'm thinking of reaming an H&R Buffalo Classic just like Tyler Kemp's.

its easy .. need to borrow a reamer?
you can then use the 45/120 nitro loads on ammoguide

Bill

Reaming by hand is certainly doable. Use plenty of cutting fluid and do your darndest to keep everything straight. A good fitting reamer pilot is a must.

Now the question. Is the capacity of the 45-70 case not enough for what you want to do???

Ray

Jeffe: If you have one to loan, I'm your huckleberry!
Ray: I'm just looking for a relatively inexpensive way to have a thumper that I can also load to black powder express performance. I was also thinking of .450 NE, but even with Hornady in the game, brass and dies make this a spendier option.

sent you a pm .. its REALLY close to 450 ne1 in capacity .. use norma brass

quote:

. . . Ray: I'm just looking for a relatively inexpensive way to have a thumper that I can also load to black powder express performance.. . .

The reason I asked is because you can load the 45-70 to 458 Win Mag ballistics (and probably beyond). In a 6 1/4 pound rifle would you want even more???

Ray

Ray,
the 45/120 is nearly 100% larger, and IS in terms of useful case capacity.. anything you can do with a 45/70 you can do at lower pressure with MODERN 45/120 cases... about 1/2 to 3/4 the pressure.

Why not be reasonable and just do a 45-90?

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
Why not be reasonable and just do a 45-90?

what's "reasonable" about that?



45/120 on the right.. 45/70 on the left




reasonable?
45/120 dies are 25 bucks, the reamer rental is "Free", and its the largest commerical case that shares the 45/70 casehead and rim ..

so, going 45/90 results in a charge for a reamer, more bucks for dies and cases, and you are in a COMPROMISE ..

and it WORKS in the HR .. been proven!

What's difference in case capacity between the 45-120?

What's the difference in brass costs per hundred?

How much harder does a 45-120 recoil in a Handi-rifle than a 45-70?

Guys, I'm doing the Buffalo Classic project after re-reading Ross Seyfried's article on the .450 Express that was published in Rifle magazine No. 190, July 2000.
I've had many .45-70s over the years, from a Pedersoli Sharps to several Trapdoors to various Marlins to both the Buffalo Classic and the NEF HandiRifle. I've shot them hot with smokeless and nice and easy with black powder.
The first time I read Ross's article, I bought a Ruger No. 1 in .458 and had local smith Kevin Wyatt ream it to .450 NE. That was a fun experiment, but getting ca. 1950s RCBS dies, Bertram cases and the reamer to agree on dimensions was a pain in the "arse," and the 1:14 twist in the Ruger was great with jacketed and smokeless but less so with BP and lead.
Enter the H&R Buffalo Classic. It has a 32-inch barrel, 1:20 twist and costs well under $400. And it weighs more like 8 pounds with a bit of lead in the butt: much closer to the British black powder "express" concept but plenty strong to handle all the smokeless recoil I care to endure.
I just ordered RCBS Legacy dies and 20 Norma cases from Buffalo Arms, and will report on the project as it plays out.
Sure appreciate all the advice, and a special tip o' the sombrero to Seenyore Jeffe!

The 45-90 is a reasonable cartridge to shoot.

There is noting reasonable about shooting a 45-120.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
The 45-90 is a reasonable cartridge to shoot.

There is noting reasonable about shooting a 45-120.

Mr. SR 4759: For you to make such a comment with such certitude indicates that you have considerable personal experience with the two cartridges, and are no mere armchair theorist. Please explain why the .45-120 will not reasonably suit my personal requirements.
What other chambering do you suggest to approximate the ballistics with black powder of the British .450 Express using the Buffalo Classic platform?

quote:

Originally posted by Cheechako:

quote:

. . . Ray: I'm just looking for a relatively inexpensive way to have a thumper that I can also load to black powder express performance.. . .

The reason I asked is because you can load the 45-70 to 458 Win Mag ballistics (and probably beyond). In a 6 1/4 pound rifle would you want even more???

Ray

Can you tell me what load will push a 500gr jacketed bullet to 2100 f/s in a 45-70?

I disagree. My rifle is under 9 lbs and at 458 Lott ballistics, is quite accurate for what it is, and isn't unreasonable to shoot. The recoil doesn't hurt with the 1.5" Kick-Eez I have on it, just pushes hard. In short, I LOVE IT.

Jason

I concede. I overstated.

What I should have said was that the 45-70, in an appropriate rifle, can be loaded to near 458 Win Mag ballistics.

A 400 grain bullet at 2100fps is enough for me. 55 grains of 3031 will do that.

Ray

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
The 45-90 is a reasonable cartridge to shoot.

There is noting reasonable about shooting a 45-120.

Mr. SR 4759: For you to make such a comment with such certitude indicates that you have considerable personal experience with the two cartridges, and are no mere armchair theorist. Please explain why the .45-120 will not reasonably suit my personal requirements.
What other chambering do you suggest to approximate the ballistics with black powder of the British .450 Express using the Buffalo Classic platform?

The Buffalo Classic is a cheap, light rifle. The very large capacity 45-120 case is good for a few laughs. If you decide to shoot the BC a lot it will be a punishing combination with smokeless. The cases larger than the 45-90 are more difficult to get good black powder accuracy in.
When you get ready to unload it you might find some interest in a 45-90 for a BP shooter. There are a lot of 45-120s that are offered for sale that are sold only when the price is low enough to replace the barrel.
I was just wondering if you have ever touched off a maximum load that the BC is capable of handling in a 45-70 with a 500 grain bullet and smokeless powder.
The 500 grn .458 jacketed bullets are often two diameter bullet so you can seat one about one caliber deep. That leaves a lot of room for smokeless. The same can be done with either powder in a 45-90.
It is universally agreed upon by BPCR shooters that the .45-90 in a 12 lb rifle gives the shooter a beating and the 45-1XX cases are more of the same and much more difficult to get decent accuracy from.

I've touched off 45/120 loads inthe HR 22"" barrel 6# crackhead bigbore .. and lived to tell about it.. remember, these are LOWER pressure than a 45/70 .. and garrett says the handrifile is good enough for them in 45/70.

we don't "care" what BPCR shooters use in these.. they use 585gr lead or paperpatched at 1300fps .. not 500gr at 2300 fps in a case larger than a 458 lott .. there's NO relationship .. i know some of the guys that shoot (and win) at yupon creek .. and they won't even shoot marlin level 45/70 loads without complaining about recoil in a 12# rifle7

I hate to put a fine point on it, but you haven't shot it in 45/120 .. and you can still shoot 45/70 in the 45/120 chamber...

its EASY

look, i shoot 700gr at 2150 in an 11.5# rifle .. the 45/120 nitro .. which is best for 405s at 2400, is a BALL to shoot