quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
It's just the same as any pistol that uses a Browning blow back action is a 1911 type deign.(sic)

Untrue. The JM Browning designed model 1911 is a locked breech. There is no pistol that fires the 45ACP cartridge that uses a blowback action.

Dave, you are correct, in that the 1911 is not a blowback, but there are more than a couple 45 ACP guns that are ..
grease gun, blowback, openbolt
mac-10, blowback, openbolt,
mpa-10, blowback, closed bolt
uzi (yes, dorothy, they also come in 45acp) blowback, openbolt
all the hipoint 45 acp -- blowback

and some rifles
ruger police carbine
marlin camp carbine

My fast typing... Opps I've heard of it called a Browning Delayed blow back action Which would be a locking breach.
I in no way meant to define the type of action used But simply compare the type of operating system used and how many other pistols use the same concept if not the same design.

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:

I agree that the Mauser is a sloppy action by todays standards but tell me of a better action built in that time period that could compete with the Mauser on the battle field. And don't bring up the heap of junk, arse backwards design, Krag either.

C
Next thing you'll do is tell us how much better a push feed is over a CRF rifle

I agree that the m98 has its place in history.
The main reason for its historical status, is volume.
Manny other designs has better features on certain aspects.

Regarding PF / CRF, there is litte doubt that regarding cyckeling speed and primary safety, the PF design is lightyears ahead of the CRF

Volume yes I'll agree that the custom rifle builder had no better choice then the 98 simply because it was available. I'd do the same thing. Why custom build on a one of a kind or rare platform. Sure you could sell a few for a nice fee but you would not be able to stay in business like that.

My feeling is that the 98 was the "Package" It put all the best features practical for a war time rifle in one action. Granted the Germans held on to it for one war to long but thats politics not the rifles fault.

If the Germans had the StG 44 a few years sooner we might be speaking German today
My comment on CRF/PF was just to push your buttons All in good fun.

Hi Kc
Actualy the germans lost all there wars, in witch they used the m98
This resulted in a lot of m98 left behind by the beaten germans, that was a cheap and easy accesably source for actions. Combined with the large quantity sold to various "bananarepubliks"(they needed a so simple product that untrained pesants could learn to use it) It gives you accesability, and a so simple and recognizably product, that a lot of smiths can act like eksperts
If you look at companyhistory, a lot of companys today have started out rebuilding Mausers. Basically you can look at m98 as kindergarden for riflebuilders . It gives you a werry cheap platform, to do a lot of neccecary work on, allowing you to make a little money on the labour. Starting out with a modern and fully finished action, gives you werry little room for earning your daily bread, as there is werry little to do, and no glorious tales to tell. Just purely facts and function, combined with a way better feeling.
Most of the mfg's that started that way, has eather stopped, or mooved on using newer and in manny ways better actions,as a platform.

My PF pushbotton releases now and then, in a naive hope that one day, atleast some people starts actualy looking at the pros and cons, from a more enlightened point of vue.

quote:

If the Germans had the StG 44 a few years sooner we might be speaking German today.

No. Because they would never have been able to get enough of its specialised ammunition up to the front line.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Dave, you are correct, in that the 1911 is not a blowback, but there are more than a couple 45 ACP guns that are ..
grease gun, blowback, openbolt
mac-10, blowback, openbolt,
mpa-10, blowback, closed bolt
uzi (yes, dorothy, they also come in 45acp) blowback, openbolt
all the hipoint 45 acp -- blowback

and some rifles
ruger police carbine
marlin camp carbine

You will notice I said PISTOL not guns, referring my statement about the model 1911. I had never heard of the Hi-point blowback 45ACP pistol before. I suppose it is the exception that proves the rule, which is, a blowback type action needs a very heavy slide AND an overly heavy recoil spring to keep the action from prematurely opening on firing.

As always, I defer to your superior knowledge.

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:
Hi Kc
Actualy the germans lost all there wars, in witch they used the m98


My PF pushbotton releases now and then, in a naive hope that one day, atleast some people starts actualy looking at the pros and cons, from a more enlightened point of vue.

What I meant by "One war too long" was not that they had one WWI but more so that the M98 was a comparable rifle to the times. By 1936 it was getting long in the tooth and should have been replaced. The garand was being developed in 1919 but would not be perfected and finalized till 1933 Those arrogant Germans held on that rifle for two wars. and they had better rifles on the drawing board. Not that I wanted Germany to win. I'm just looking at it from a historical and tactical point of view

I was told this by a friend of mine whom happens to be a Jew and his wives family died in the holocaust.

He said what if Hitler wasn't evil what if Hitler used that power of persuasion to advance his country in technology. Think about all the Great minds that came out of Germany... Think of all the talented Scientist, Engineers, Toolmakers, Pattern makers. Jews and Germans alike. Just think of what that country could have been if hitler was a compassionate kind person that really believed in his country and not his total domination of the world.
Germany could have been the next economic and technologic leader of the world.
Ok I'll get off the soap box now.

As for the PF debate
I won't start a new thread on that one. It's been hashed out up one side and down the other. The fact is both CRF and PF have their place they both have advantages and disadvantages and in their own right deserve to be used in certain situations. More so then anything I like a CRF just because it's a very traditional type of action. I also like old cars too But does that make a Ford Model T a better, safer truck then a new one?? No it just makes it neat to own and nothing else

I agree starting out with a 98 may not be the best way to go about building a custom rifle anymore not with all the modern built copies going around and not to mention the semi-custom action being built now days.

For around $1000 or less you can get an action ready to barrel and stock. Clean polished perfect edges just waiting to be built.

I guess we yanks over here are a little caught up in the romance of the classic custom rifle. Nothing wrong with that. But just keep in mind that the Rem 700 has it's place too. Definitely not something i would not consider building a true classic style custom from but they build one hell of a rifle though and can be built into one hell of a tack driver

Hi Kc
That was one of the most nuanced and qualifyed replies her on AR for a long time. Wish that there was more people who actualy could have differnet opinions, and provide them in sutch a polite and intellegent way.

Well you can't be a block head all the time.

Thanks