Does anyone know about the quality of Federal Testmaster dial indicators for use with a lathe.

Thanks.

Jim

Jim, although not completely familiar with this particular model, Federal is and has been a longstanding high end gage mfg. I say this with over 25 yrs of inspection experience at a few different primary manufacturing companies. I've spent alot of time in gage calibration as well and refuse to purchase no name equipment either for my company or myself. I will look deeper into this model and report back.

I should have likely been more forthcoming with information.

I am looking to buy some dial indicators for a new lathe that I ordered.

I found some used FT indicators and hope I can save some money and still get a quality unit.

Thanks for the help.

Jim

I agree with walnut that a good quality indicator is far better than a no name product.....but for mounting to a lathe I only use low end names such as Enco because of chips and oils/coolant. There is no reason to put a high end indicator on your lathe.

Also if you don't owne one already, buy a NOGA mag base....the most used piece of equipment I use on the lathe.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
I agree with walnut that a good quality indicator is far better than a no name product.....but for mounting to a lathe I only use low end names such as Enco because of chips and oils/coolant. There is no reason to put a high end indicator on your lathe.
Also if you don't owne one already, buy a NOGA mag base....the most used piece of equipment I use on the lathe.

OK, Ted, now I am confused.

Isn't that JUST where I want to have a quality indicator? I want to trust my equipment to dial in a barrel, etc.

Are you saying that Enco is OK to use for this work?

Please excuse my lack of knowledge on this stuff, that is why I am asking.

Thanks.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
Also if you don't owne one already, buy a NOGA mag base....the most used piece of equipment I use on the lathe.

Ted,

Thanks, I need one of those also. However, there are two pages of them. NOGA Bases

Could you point out one or two that I should consider?

Thanks again.

Jim

Go to longislandindicator.com and you can discover what you need to know about any indicator brand

It's up to you. I won't put a $200 long travle indicatore on a lathe...I just wont do it.

If an indicator is to be used during cutting it will be a disposable one if it's me.

Same goes for useing two indicatores on a mill to watch for work-piece-shift..."disposable" beacase in time damage happens!


This is a close match to my 20 year old unit.
http://www.wttool.com/product-..._source=SiteChampion

There's some good advice above this post.
http://longislandindicator.com/p37.htmlis a GREAT place to learn something about these. They do a great job repairing as well. Their website is the best on the net concerning indicators.

There's a big difference between test and travel indicators. Here's a pic of my test indicators on my 2 NOGA bases. B&S and Interapid.

Travel indicator used for threading. Hot chips are hard on the plastic bezel. I use relatively inexpensive teclock Japan made for travel.

Nice post, gunmaker

Your red noga is the same vintage as mine....your lathe is kick ass clean!!! WOW I love your custom tool post handle.

Nice pics....the tenth indicator is the go-to name brand in SEMO but most of use rarely break out a tenth indicator on a machine, hardly anyone likes the interapid because of it's single swing direction needle, and price.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
Nice post, gunmaker

Your red noga is the same vintage as mine....your lathe is kick ass clean!!! WOW I love your custom tool post handle.

Nice pics....the tenth indicator is the go-to name brand in SEMO but most of use rarely break out a tenth indicator on a machine, hardly anyone likes the interapid because of it's single swing direction needle, and price.

It's an older pic. I do spend some time cleaning the lathe before chambering. Trying to keep the junk out of my flow through oil tank. I figure with the money I spend on chamber reamers they're worth taking care of.

I'm a little confused about your last sentence. The only thing I don't like about my interapid is the dial turns the opposite direction of the bestest. Interapid has a lot more travel and I use my .0005" that has .060" travel extensively. The tenth reading interapid in the pic above I bought for $5 and had it repaired for around $80.

IMHO, never buy a cheap test indicator or base.

The copies of the NOGA base and Interapid indicator are JUNK. Not worth even thinking about. If you can't afford quality here then scrimp & save until you can. You will never regret spending the money. Resale value holds well too.

Interapids are realy great super high quality but what I and my co-workers don't like is that the neadle swings the same direction for + or - readings.

85 bucks for your interapid was a great price! I also agree about knock-of NOGA's don't buy them.

Long Island Indicator Service is a treasure of information. Thanks to all that refered me to it.

I was very surprised what I read about what I thought were some high quality indicators.

So you guys are using a .0005 test indicator for dialing in barrels?

Long Island Indicator Service has a high quality one for $100 on sale.

Compac Test Indicator

The more I research the better the deal looks.

Thanks.

Jim

I would buy the 1 1/2" dial Brown and Sharp .0005 black face if it was my money...look at e-bay

It's what I use and have used for 24 years.

Got some news for ya. Best test by Brown and sharp, Tesa, SPI, and interapid are all manufactured under the same roof. Granted they are slightly different indicators in style and model but last I checked they were made by the same parent co.

As for using a junk indicator on a lath instead of a good one. Sorry not for me. I'll use a starrett, or a brown and sharp travel indicator any day on my machines. Will they get damaged? Sure they will but they are more trust worthy then a $10 HF indicator. And if they do get damaged send it out to be fixed.
Either way don't buy junk you'll pay later anyway.

After all it is your money.

quote:

Originally posted by pdhntr1:
So you guys are using a .0005 test indicator for dialing in barrels?

Long Island Indicator Service has a high quality one for $100 on sale.

Compac Test Indicator
Jim

The 2 I use when dialing in a barrel read .00005" and .0001". This is about the only time I use these high resolution indicators. My workhorse reads .0005". If you don't have one, I'd start with the big dial.0005" like the one Ted uses. The link you listed is a very good indicator. I would spend a little more on the larger dial. BesTest or Compac are both top shelf. The older I get, the more I like the bigger dials. The .0001" Interapid I bought for $5+repair bill is a small dial and I wish it was bigger.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
Interapids are realy great super high quality but what I and my co-workers don't like is that the neadle swings the same direction for + or - readings.

Ok, I had to double check my Interapids and still don't understand your "same direction for + or - readings" statement. Push it and it goes one way and pull it and it goes the other way. Not the same direction. My BesTest reads only clockwise. Doesn't matter what side of the point you push on. I kind of like that feature.

However, it is quite frustrating dialing in the range rod using 2 test indicators when the BesTest goes clockwise while the Interapid goes CCW. I'd be happy to trade my .0001" small face Interapid for another .00005" BesTest with the large dial. I always start with my .0005" big dial Interapid. Besides reading opposite my other indicators, the other beef I have with my Interapids is the stem that sticks out the back. I find the dovetail on the back of the Compac/BesTest handier to set up on my Noga. If you notice how my interapids are mounted on my red NOGA, I've milled a dovetail on the top of the clamp so it's easier to use. The newer style NOGA has a swivel dovetail that serves the same purpose but I find my home made dovetail works smoother with the fine adjustment, less twitchy as the indicator is much closer to the pivot.

Thats cool....all of my B&S go + on the up and - on the fall. The only interrapid in the shop turns the same way pushed up or pulled down.

I also have the long tip B&S in the 1 1/2" dial and love it whene sweeping the C/L of a hole in a mill or EDM.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
After all it is your money.

Well yeah But I don't know I just don't trust the junky ones.
But lets be clear here. What brand indicator would you consider inexpensive enough to use on the lathe?
Granted I'm not going to use an Interapid on the bed as a travel indicator But I would use a Starrett, B&S, or a Mitsutoyo

To me the names you mention are all top shelf tools and have no place on a chip/oil/coolant slinging machine of any type
But that's just me and my money I use a differant method for shoulders and depths other than an indicator anyway.
I will only use a throw away tool in harms way.

The tools I use to measure are all Starrett or Brown and Sharp and I have a small fortune of them. They stay in or on my box not on the machine.

fair enough. As I have destroyed two very good 0-1" indicators on my lathe but it did take ten year to do too so I guess I got my money out of them.
I need to get a travadial for my lathe or just pony up to a DRO. I'm tired of using a indicator anyway.

I have a Trav A Dial on mine and wouldn't trade it for any indicator. No worries if I ever crash. It is much easier to read threading than a DRO.
Butch

OK, I think I found what most of you are recommending.

Dial Indicator

I am assuming I will need two of them, or should I look for a .0001 for the second one?

Thanks to all for the great information. It is just what I was looking for.

Jim

Edit: I really don't know the resolution I need to dial in barrels. If someone would care to enlighten me I would appreciate it.

Thanks.

Jim

for indicating a diameter yes.
But for using as a Z axis distance check. No.
That would require a 1" travel indicator

quote:

Originally posted by pdhntr1:
I am assuming I will need two of them, or should I look for a .0001 for the second one?



Edit: I really don't know the resolution I need to dial in barrels. If someone would care to enlighten me I would appreciate it.

Thanks.

Jim

Jim
I've chambered a lot of barrels without using any indicator. If you're starting out doing this kind of work, you might spend some time searching & reading posts on the benchrestcentral forum. Just because I or any one else chambers a certain way, doesn't mean it's the only way. IMHO you might start with the basics and expand from there.

Some of the summer NRA gunsmithing classes might be a good place to start. There's a wealth of information at those that can be learned from teachers and other students as well.

As to your first post on this thread, here's a C&Paste from longislandindicator

Federal Gage made the worst test indicator you could get stuck with. Bits of solder were used to hold it together. Mercifully these have been discontinued. The last models named Testmaster were made by Tesa in Switzerland and they're identical to Bestest indicators (see above). These are no longer available from Federal, but you can still buy the Bestest equivalent.

What I don't understand is where you call it a dial indicator. Dial and test indicators are 2 different animals.

James
great pics

harbour frieght sells a CHEAP digital for about 35 bucks ...

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:

quote:

Originally posted by pdhntr1:
I am assuming I will need two of them, or should I look for a .0001 for the second one?



Edit: I really don't know the resolution I need to dial in barrels. If someone would care to enlighten me I would appreciate it.

Thanks.

Jim

Jim
I've chambered a lot of barrels without using any indicator. If you're starting out doing this kind of work, you might spend some time searching & reading posts on the benchrestcentral forum. Just because I or any one else chambers a certain way, doesn't mean it's the only way. IMHO you might start with the basics and expand from there.

Some of the summer NRA gunsmithing classes might be a good place to start. There's a wealth of information at those that can be learned from teachers and other students as well.

As to your first post on this thread, here's a C&Paste from longislandindicator

Federal Gage made the worst test indicator you could get stuck with. Bits of solder were used to hold it together. Mercifully these have been discontinued. The last models named Testmaster were made by Tesa in Switzerland and they're identical to Bestest indicators (see above). These are no longer available from Federal, but you can still buy the Bestest equivalent.

What I don't understand is where you call it a dial indicator. Dial and test indicators are 2 different animals.

Gunmaker,

Let me start out at the end of your post and work up. The reason I called it a dial indicator is simply I didn't know the correct terminology for the different tools. I now realize the tools that you show in your pics are TEST INDICATORS and not dial indicators. The learning curve is very steep for someone that has not had the opportunity to apprentice under a knowledgeable gunsmith.

I am bound and determined to learn this on my own (or with yours and others help). I am getting near retirement, have raised all my kids and can finally buy a toy once in a while. I have been a stock maker for many years as a hobby, and have built up a good clientele, but would still be referred to as a "bottom feeder" on this forum. My hands are getting arthritic and I would like to build my own rifles from now on.

The gunsmith that has been doing my chambering does not use test indicators for anything and I have issues with that. Especially when I take a $450 Krieger barrel, $150 custom reamer and the barrel won't shoot. I will not take another barrel to him to chamber. I am all too familiar with the other methods of chambering a barrel. I have two alternatives, take the next one to another gunsmith, or learn how to do it myself.

I have been reading the threads on the gunsmithing forum on Benchrest.com for several months. I have been saving some in a binder for reference. Very good information.

I am likely buying Brown and Sharpe.

Thanks so much for all the information.

Jim

Jim, Trying to get over the back surgery. Hard to type without the use of the fingers on my left hand. It will come later. I use a 312B Interapid, 513-504 Mitutoyo, and have 3 OR 4 B&S Bestest indicators. I have a complete set of Deltronic pins for each barrel bore that I chamber. 25 pins in each in .0001 increments. It is great that you are accumulating a lot of info on chambering. After doing a few you will take a little of each and find your own method. As James said, There are several ways to get a good chamber.
Butch

Butch,
Heal fast!

I’m a bit late to this thread but I have been using the SPI indicators I got thru Enco and have had very good luck with them. I bought 80 about three years ago and so far have about 30 new left and about as many on the floor or in tool boxes. I destroyed one and I know at least ten more were destroyed thru use or training. I am guessing the one I have been using for the last two years has been used several thousand times and still holds well.

Butch, I had the same left side issues when I had my heart attack, The best way for me was to use a sling.

Big Earl, My arm and wrist are still strong, just no strength in the fingers. I just need to rehab them.
Butch

Butch,

Hope the rehab is swift.

Thanks for the information and vote of confidence.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Big Earl:
I’m a bit late to this thread but I have been using the SPI indicators I got thru Enco and have had very good luck with them. I bought 80 about three years ago and so far have about 30 new left and about as many on the floor or in tool boxes.

Big Earl,

What are you using for magnetic bases?

Thanks.

Jim

PD hntr - Had I heard about the poorly made Federals, I would not have talked them up. Sorry. Just another good name trying to create an economy model to compete with China probably.
Gunmakr - I also adore Interapid. Used the same one doing surface plate work for 14 yrs. Always worked and never failed a calibration when sent to an accredited outside lab. What impressed me most was the "light" tension on the needle. I once zeroed out the Interapid on the top of another test indicator and rolled a pin under. The Interapid indicated upward movement of the body of the other!
One thing to keep in mind when it comes to gages and saving money with off brands. Don't confuse resolution with accuracy. Everyones digital calipers read in 4 decimal places these days. This is misleading at best. The quality stuff is +/- .001" over 6 inches as far as accuracy. Regardless of what resolution the face shows, read the paper that comes with the tool. They'll list the actual accuracy. At least the better brands will.
None of this is based on gunsmithing experience - just decades of inspection-LOL.

quote:

Originally posted by pdhntr1:
I now realize the tools that you show in your pics are TEST INDICATORS and not dial indicators.

The first pic has 2 test indicators. The next 2 pics are dial (travel) indicators to showing the versatility of the NOGA base and the difference in operation. Distance is not normally measured with a test indicator. The point swings in an arc and this induces error. However they work very well for dialing in parts on the lathe or a mill vise assuming the part is to be dialed to ZERO. If you're dialing an eccentric on the lathe or setting a taper in the lathe, I would use a dial indicator.

The reason I C&Pasted the info from longislandindicator about Federal is to show that many of the companies that sell these tools just put their name on them. Like SPI, Federal, Brown & Sharpe. SOME of the indicators relabeled by these companies are world class and some are not. The Federal Testmaster seems to be the same test indicator as the B&S BesTest. Some other models of Federal may not be worth buying.

gunmaker
I looked at my B&S indicators today and remembered what I didn't like about the interapids.....
they swing the opposite way for +/- and my mind speaks Best-test -/+ so I stay away to avoid scrap.

quote:

Big Earl,

What are you using for magnetic bases?

Jim,
At my home shop I use a Starrett that I bought new 25 years ago but at work I use the cheap imports. Not by desire but by design, I fill out a PO and it goes to our buying department and they find the cheapest alternative they can. They really are pretty decent for the money.
Butch, Hope you get back to tricks soon with those fingers.