What ever happened to Jbelk? Anyone know?

Can't say that I really care as to Jbelks whereabouts. All I care about is if BrianM is ok. I still haven't seen him on any of the boards in 2 months now. And have heard rumors that he was having serious health problems.



-Mike

http://www.accuratereloading.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=539006&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=21&fpart=1





http://www.accuratereloading.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=539007&page=5&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=21&fpart=1

Well, I for one would love to hear if Jack is OK. Did he manage to float back to the surface after the stint of bad fortune hitting his life?? I should certainly hope so, not only because he apparently was a remarkable craftsman, but we all miss his professional and well meant advice right here! So Jack, if you are out there, sign on and say "Hullo".
- mike

Hear hear!! C'mon Jack, I, for one, miss your opinions, professional approach, knowledge and assistance.

You guys were trying to bad mouth him before and now are missing him! I also would like to see him back online so we will be able to learn more from him before he disappear for good.

Quote:

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What ever happened to Jbelk? Anyone know?

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I've had a cople email exchanges with him... he's had computer troubles and is trying to sort out all his work and make the customers happy.

If you have a project with him, put " last name Project" in the title of the email, and he'll get back to ya.

Best of Luck, Jack

jeffe

This will generate flames for sure, but I'm willing to take it. Just how many ppl here believe every lame excuse he comes up with? Excuses, excuses.

What is your opinion of ppl in life that you come across who have excuses for every shortfall in their life?

-Mike

Mike,
Why don't you ask Jack directly, as a man should

jeffe

I for one care about Jack�s whereabouts I would really like to hear from him. I have a rifle he has had three times now that he is supposed to make feed. Each time it has came back in worse shape. Now it won�t even chamber the last round in the magazine, this is something that happens 100% of the time. Then there is the matter of my purchasing a magnum follower, something I did because Jack said he needed one to make my rifle feed properly. This is an Argentine action rebarreled to 7 mag. When I got the rifle back from him the first time the original follower was in place and he told me the other wouldn�t fit. Huh? What does that mean? It was a mag follower made specifically for that action and shouldn�t a gunsmith be able to make it fit? Then when I asked for it back he said he couldn�t find it but when he did he would send it to me.



That was over a year ago. So I don�t buy the lack of internet, lack of computer, lack of money, etc. Truth of the matter is Jack has proven to have a poor work ethic and his problems are entirely self-induced. Knowledgeable and talented yes but it takes more then that.

That's one sorry set of excuses if you ask me.......

AD

Three tries to make gun feed with no success. That's not talented or knowledgable.

Jack is a very capable talented person in my opinion. What he needs is a friendly, slap up along side the head to get it back on straight and to get him back to doing what he does best. Building guns and typing on the internet.

Jack in one heck of a nice person and I want him back up and running as much as anyone. He just needs to stop making excuses, or believing the excuses others make for him, and get his nose to the grindstone.

While I often disagreed with Jack & his style (and especially his Remington bashing), it is a shame to see somebody who "had" such talent go down in flames so drastically.

It is impossible for me (or anyone else)to say what might be in Jack's mind. I can say this; Every single person I know has shortcomings. Every gunsmith occasionally drops the ball (or the gun). Some are better at getting their lives and livlihood to mesh than others. Most seem to burn out from time to time and it's usually temporary.
I hate to hear of anyone in the trade having difficulties and hate even more to hear of shooters impacted by these.
Forums like this one are a bit of a two edged sword. They give the gunsmith a lot of exposure but they can overdo it. On top of that they are a bit addictive . Regards, Bill.

Then send him a letter.

Bashing him in public, without excerising ALL means, and if you don't have a dog in the fight, ,,, well, that's down right unmanly.

jeffe

I think some people seem to enjoy the public demise of him, that's what bugs me. He obviously dropped the ball and in a big way, but I get no pleasure out of it. I also wonder about BrianM, I haven't seen him here or the 24, I hope he's alright.

Does anyone know if he showed up at Reno? And if so, did anyone get an update from him there?

Bob

Howard the reason why I've been so critical of Belk is because he pulled the wool over on two of my friends. You and Jim Kobe.



Howard, you forgot to make mention of the CZ 527 that you had him rechamber to 22 K-Hornet. If I recall he charged you $300 for that. Then last year at the guild show gave one of his typical sob stories and hit you up for another $200 because he said it was needed to complete that job. right?



Jim gave him $500 outright in cash for his "eye surgery" and never even got a thanks. Lets see here. Quite a few folks contribute to his "eye surgery" (me included) and he doesn't even put out thank you cards. Or just a simple email saying thanks. I mean really, how hard is that.



I don't like the man, I don't trust him, and I thank my lucky stars that I never sent gun work his way. Because I almost did.



Btw, to all of you Belk defenders. Their is more than meets the eye. I bet none of you had him do any work for you or your friends.



Flame away, Mike

Alvin,
I understand supproting friends, and ask you to do the same.

Ask your friends to post a complaint on this.. You simply don't have a dog in the fight.
jeffe

Jeff,

Now I fully know that I've come across as a complete horses ass here. I'm willing to accept that, for the most part I'm pretty level headed. But I'm also very passionate about this issue because a couple of my friends have been taken to the cleaner. You're right, I don't have a dog in this fight. This will be my last post in regards to any Jack Belk issue from here on out.

-Mike

Jeffe, I've calmed down and thought this thing over about Jack...and my uncalled for email to you. I for one think Jack to be one of the finest "metalsmiths" in the country. Personal problems? Well, most I believe have been self-generated but from what I've heard he is making some positive steps. And "heard" is what bothers me. In one religion practiced here in the US gossip is equated with murder. Because gossip like murder can't be undone. A short story here: A man came to apologize to another for talking ill of him. He asked for his forgiveness. The offended man said, "I most certainly will if you will do for me something first." "Anything," said the man in an attempt to relieve himself of the guilt. The offended man said, "Go home. Take a pillow from your bed and go outside. Open one end and shake it until all the feathers have been scattered into the wind. Then, come back and talk to me." The man left. When he returned he told the offended man that he had done as requested and asked, "Am I now forgiven?" The offended man replied "As soon as you have gathered ALL the feathers that were in the pillow." "That's impossible!", said the man. And is so with murder since the offended one can never forgive the offender as his availability to do so has been taken. And my point here....(1) Is to offer my apologiizies to you for uncalled for comment, (2) The story is about what is going on about Jack and needs to stop, (3) and if you see or talk to Jack, give him my best, (4) and Good Shooting! Mike

Alvin, Mike..
Thanks guys.. I also appologize for jumping in on this.

I hope that Jack gets this sorted out quick.. and all our friends just go back to being shooting, braggin, hunting, and lieing buddies. you know (since i am from texas, i can say it) Hot Air is a big export from Texas.

Mike,
thanks.... seriously...
Jeffe

I certainly am not enjoying the demise of Jack Belk, if indeed that is what it can be termed. I consider Jack a friend, have been a guest at his home on several occasions, and he would likewise be welcome in mine. Some may argue, maybe rightly too, that my issues with Jack should not be made public. I will not disagree with your stand, you may even be correct. I do feel that truthful statements as to Jack�s dealing will go a long ways towards stopping the mindless speculation that has run rampart on the forums the last few months. Jack has failed to deliver or live up to his promises the last few months. There have been times when I have done the same and I still hold out hope that Jack will pull it all together and get going again. I have two projects I hope he can contribute to. I think that last sentence says a lot, for despite the problems I still have faith in Jack as a person and craftsman.

To Alvinmack, it�s true you have no personal dog in this fight though I think you have a right to your opinion. Your last post to Jeff was an honorable standup thing to do; you have my admiration for that.

I've been holding off posting this here.Since Belk has disapeared on me again,and is requiring me to take legal action,I figure I might as well post this anyway.

In late March/early April of 2003,two rifles were sent to Jack-my 1972 Browning Safari Grade 458 Magnum,and my father's 1970 Browning Olympian Grade in 270.

Jack at first answered all e-mails promptly.Once he got the rifles though,I was lucky to get a response back to an e-mail.Around late May/early June,he disapeared all together,right after I recived an e-mail from him that said "458 is almost done,having some trouble with the Olympian".

This is the last I heard from him until August,when he said the 458 was on it's way.After a month,I figured it must have gotten lost so after some trouble,I got in contact with him.He said he hadn't shipped it off yet but would so that week.After ANOTHER month,I made a post here asking as to his whereabouts.After a few weeks he finaly showed up and e-mailed me.

It turns out,that at some point around the time of that late May/early June e-mail,when he sent me the e-mail that said there was some "problems" with the Olympian,he wasn't being completley forthcoming.

He confessed to torquing the stock with a pry bar,supposedly "looking for cracks".I have never heard of anyone doing something like this.

He said while "looking for cracks",the stock mysteriously broke in half at the magazine well.Remember,this happened around June-I was not informed of this until late November,even though I had been in breif contact with him three times between June and November.And I'm not a hard person to find by the way.

He claimed he spent the entire time,from June through November,trying to fix the stock.At some point he tried to buy another stock but it didn't look enough like my father's stock.This obviously shows he was trying to cover up what he did.

After some strange e-mails,he agreed to pay $2,000 for the replacement of the stock,and to return the stock he broke.By the way,$2,000 is cheap for an Olympian stock-the one Browning restocker my father spoke with wanted almost $1,000 just to do the Olympian style checkering.

Just before Thanksgiving,the 458,Olympian barreled action,and check for $2,000 arrived.The broken Olympian stock did not arrive.He had some excuse for not sending it with the guns,and said he'd send it back as soon as he got back from a trip for Thanksgiving,in early December.

As of today,January 28th,the stock has not arrived.

As for the 458-this is possibly the most shocking of all in this strange tale of gunsmithing gone bad.

The 458,when I shipped it to Jack,was for all purposes new.I bought it new in the box,and it had been gentley taken to the range twice.There wasn't a mark on it.

I sent it to Jack to have the action,and only the action,bedded to make sure it did not crack in the tang from recoil-Browning 458s are prone to do this,and since I planned on shooting and hunting with the rifle,I figured it was the smart thing to do to have it bedded by someone,who for all practical purposes,should be able to do a simple glass bedding job blindfolded.

Right??

Wrong!!

I started laughing the second I pulled it out of the case.I started laughing harder once I took the barreled action out of the stock.

First,there was a big glop of bedding compound in the checkering.Not a big deal.

Then I looked at the forearm-the finish looked horrible.It appears that whoever bedded the gun did not listen to what I said about bedding just the action,and bedded the entire barrel channel as well.

In the process,they slopped bedding compound all over the finish on the top of the forearm,and forend.Then it apppears that they applied something to it to try to remove it,and in the process,removed the origanal Browning finish.They then sloppily laquered over this,trying to cover it up.It looks horrible and is rough to the touch.

After seeing this,I decided to pull the barrelled action out of the stock.Upon inspection,I found where Jack broke the stock right through the bolt handle cut out.I will give him this-he covered his mistake well.What gave it away though,is that when he broke it,a chunk of wood broke out,and he had to fill it with puty-red puty.If it hadn't been for that,I never would have spoted it.

Any of these things by themselves would demand payment for their replacement or fixing,or at least what I payed him to bed it.All of them together warrants the replacement of the stock,which is useless now due to the crack.The crack is in an area that takes the brunt of a 458's recoil,and I have no doubt in my mind that the crack would grow and eventualy break the stock within a box of ammo.

Conviently,when these problems were discovered,Jack disapeared again.

So,he owes me $400 for what it cost me to buy a new Safari Grade 458 stock (I was lucky enough to find one),and he still owes my father the broken Olympian stock that he said he'd send in November and has still not arrived yet.

I honestly don't belive Jack did the work on these rifles.I have seen examples of Jack's past work,and they are the work of a true master.The work on the 458 stock could have been done much,much better by an ameture for the first time in their garage.I'm serious-how hard is it to glass bed a stock?Not only is the bed job bad,in the process the finish on the forearm was ruined and and the stock cracked.I have no doubt that any single person on this forum could have done a better bedding job on this stock.

Since Jack has not responded to my e-mails or my father's phone messages,I will be calling his local police department and turning him in for mail fraud.Since the work was paid for with a US Postal Money Order,and the rifles mailed to Jack using the US Postal Service,this is mail fraud and a federal offense.

If this does not work for some reason,I will simply file a small claims suit against Jack.

Jack,if you're reading this-please be a man and mail me the broken Olympian stock you said you'ld send,and a check for $400.This would save you a lot of time and hassle.I have all the free time in the world and filling out the paperwork for the Postal Inspectors doesn't take too long.

Neither does the paper work for a Small Claims Court case.

And should you just stay disapeared,I will simply drive to Buhl,Idaho,go to the Sherrif's department,and have them escorte me to your residence where I will collect my father's stock and the money for my 458 stock.

Brian Mayes.

I certainly don't have a dog in this fight, either, but, MAN.... if only HALF of what you said was true... you got royally screwed!... I admire your patience.... I don't think I could have been that understanding after the first month or two overdue..... it's sad, really.

Brian,
To say that your situation really sucks would be a gross understatement. It's more like it REALLY, REALLY, REALLY sucks!!! Ain't no excuse for shit like this, especially from a guy with an (from what I gather) excellent reputation for first class work. Doesn't matter who fucked up your guns, they and the money went to him and he's responsible, period. Fill out the paperwork and see what you can get, cause it don't look like gettin' is gonna get any better as time goes on.
Glad to see you back posting, albeit on such a distressing note. Hope all is well with you otherwise.
Regards,
Craig

I've been about as paitent as possible with Jack.He says he has health problems-I have health problems so severe now that I have a hard time leaving the house unless I'm having "a good day",which is becoming very rare.There is no way I could hold a job as a gunsmith,even if I had the talent (which I don't).So I can understand the waiting game.I don't understand the lies and the disapearing act.My health is horrible,but you can get ahold of me without breaking a sweat,either through e-mail or the telephone.

If Jack had told me everything that happend as soon as it happened,I would have no doubt commisioned him to restock both rifles.That's the way I am-shit happens to everyone,even gunsmiths with your guns.

I will not though accept out right lies and avoiding the truth by just not picking up the phone.I DON'T like that he blames me for having to sell his house because of the supposed break down that happened after he broke the stock.

If anyone doubts ONE word of what I've said here,I will be more than happy to forward every e-mail exchanged by myself and Jack.I will also be happy to send pictures of the 458 stock job to anyone who is interested.

I have nothing to hide,since I have done nothing wrong.Obviously that can't be said for some other people.

Craig,I will send you an e-mail tonight.

Brian.

Brian, that's just an incredible story, and I'm sorry for all the grief you've suffered throughout this fiasco. I do believe that you're telling the truth on all counts.

It would be one thing if the rifles involved were, say, Remington 700 ADLs, but those lovely, high-quality, largely hand-built Browning High Powers (especially the one belonging to your father) simply can't be satisfactorily replaced, even with mere money. They won't be making any more of them, and to me, every one of those rifles is a treasure.

It sounds to me as though the sloppy bedding job was the result of farming that particular rifle out to someone else who didn't really know what he was doing, or else just didn't care.

I have a suggestion. Get in touch with J.J Perodeau at 580/237-7388, FAX: 580/242-6922 or www.jjperodeau.com, and see if he can't restore your Brownings to better-than-new condition. He works in Enid, Oklahoma, right next to Champlin Firearms. Several of my hunting friends have used his services, and he's world-renown as a gifted craftsman and an honest man. He's the sort of guy who can take on the impossible and come up with results that exceed the fondest of expectations.

J.J. is a true master gunmaker, a graduate of the Leige School, and specializes in repairing quality European firearms. He routinely performs tasks such as refinishing, stock bending, leather covered pads, specialized scope mounting systems, and double rifle regulation. He's more than up to the task of redoing your rifles, and redoing them in the finest manner.

Brian, I wish you improved health, and happier days. I'm counting on the fact that you will prevail through all of this. You have a lot of courage and spirit on your side, and I admire you for it...

AD

Allen,
Yes,I certainly do wish this could have happened with much cheaper firearms!! Prefferibly something along the lines of a Remington 788,where breaking it in half might be an improvement. (no offense to you 788 lovers out there)

I know of JJ and his reputation is beyond reproach.He is an old world gunsmith in Oklahoma!!How often do you see that?

Luckily,I was able to find an Olympian and a Safari 458 stock,from the same dealer.The 458 stock was $400 which is reasonable.The origanal,never mounted Olympian Grade stock with on the other hand was,well let's say quite a bit more than $400. The dealer had at one time several of these Olympian stocks,believe it or not,and I got the last and by his own words,"plainest" one.It's quite stunning,so I'd sure like to see the ones he said looked better than this one!!

Olympians are getting hard to find and have become WAY too expensive.An exellent one in 30/06 will fetch $5,000 now.Four years ago you could get the same gun for half that.It's scarry.Medallions are up into the $2500 range,and Safaris are getting pricer and pricer.I'm glad I got some of all three when they were cheap by todays standards.

Hard to belive my old man bought his first Safari Grade,a special order 257 Roberts on a small ring Mauser action,for $350 in 1972. I've seen about 5 Safari Grades in 257 Roberts for sale-two were ridiculously cheap (and sold of course ),and the other three went for $2500 a peice.They were all Sako action models with the medium contour barrel.That was several years ago and I'd hate to guess what they'd sell for on today's inflated market.I know of a Medallion on a small ring Mauser in 7x57 that is surely the only one of it's kind.The last time it traded hands it went for around $3K,and that's when an '06 Medallion went for $1K.One can only guess what it's worth today.

The Olympians and Medallions are pretty useless though,as far as practility goes,though the previous owner of my father's Olympian 270 used it to take the Grand Slam of Sheep,a bunch of African game,and just about ever species of North American game.I would have much prefered a Safari in 270 myself,but you must remember,the previous owner bought the rifle new for only $500 or so,so it wasn't so outrageous as it would be today if he did so.

Thank you for the kind words Allen.This is definetly not a heavy weight on my mind,since I am trying to decide whether or not to have major surgery,or spend the rest of my life popping pain killers.Surgery would mean fusing several discs in my neck,and possibly my upper back.The relief would be short term though,as the doctors say I'd be nearly crippled with arthrits from the surgery in 20 years.I'm nearly crippled now though,and with the way my neck disc moves around daily,I'm probably going to get arthritis anyway.Go figure.

Enjoyed watching you in Sudden Death the other night.Gotta love that one shot cape buffalo kill with a 300 Winchester.Didn't like the way Mark acted after you shot your big leopard though-you should have been holding the cat,not him!!!

Would have liked to have been there to see it none the less.

Brian.

Brain, I have read he emails you sent to Howard and I have not seen the evidence of the claims of him breaking the stock as you said. In fact he said the crack showed up when he stripped the finish and he went about to fix the crack by flexing it (which is a commeon practice) and it broke and he went about trying to fix it. He also informed you that he would buy your stock from you for $2,000. That makes it his stock. He did say he would give it back to you but he does not "owe" it to you.

If you would send me the messages you sent to him. From what I have seen so far from information you have made public he has made you whole. I do not know about the .458 stock, we can only go on what you have said.

Bear in mind that Jack had been a friend of mine for some time. He also stretched that friendship to the breaking point by the way he has treated friends and clients who I have recommended that they use him for gunsmith services. But fair is fair and what you have stated is not proven at all by what you released. If you have something else to corroborate your story and feel willing to, please send it to me. So far, I am far from convinced.

Brian, in a situation like that, I enjoy letting Mark have his fun. I have that leopard lifesize-mounted in my reloading room, and I consider it one of my finest hunting trophies. Lot's of memories, an unusual set of circumstances, and an unusually large, battle-scarred old veteran male leopard. I'll never forget it.......

AD

Not trying to contest anyone's opinion here, but, I for one do believe Brian's account of events. Based on my own experiences during this time, I also suspect that he had someone else performing (substandard) work for him, for whatever reason.

Regards,

Bob

Just slightly off topic;
When I was gunsmithing in Kamloops BC many years ago a fellow came into the store and dropped off three Browning rifles, one Olympian and two medallian grade. Seems he had just been in a car accident and the rifles had gotten wet so he wanted me to clean them up right away. He said he couldn't wait and would be back later since he was on his way to the hostpital with his wife who had brokken her leg in the same accident. First things first! Regards, Bill

Blackbart, I am not basing this on opinions but on the emails that Brian himself made public from Jack. They conradict what he said. I have also not seen the stock that he did receive but from his description it sounds very salvageable.

Chic,
I didn't send my end of the e-mails,simply because I don't have them easily accessable.I will try to pull them together and match them with each response.Otherwise,his e-mails don't make much sense.

Am going to get some pictures of the 458 stock together this weekend.I can mail them to you or Howard or whoever else wants them.

I am not so much upset by Jack breaking the stock,as I know shit happens.BUT why did he cover it up and not tell me from late May until November?Try to fix it and not tell me?Try to buy another stock and not tell me?

Brian.

PS-The $2,000 is for the devaluing of the gun.He tried to keep the stock by saying he was buying it.I told him I was willing to go to court to fight it,and he said he'd send it,which he hasn't.

If he hadn't lied and tried to cover it up,I would have PAID HIM $2,000 to restock it.

BTW,I don't make a habit of shooting 458s with cracked stocks.I paid $100 to Jack to bed an action,and he in turn ruined the finish and cracked the stock.The gun was brand new for all practical purposes before I sent it to him.