$600 to true an M70 (including blueprinting scope holes and opening to 8x40) open it up for magnum length cartridges and weld on a Tally bolt handle.

Pretty sure I'm going to go for it tomorrow but if you know someone who will do it cheaper, and do it right, I'm all ears.

ETA: Going from 7RM to .375HH.

whats wrong with it like it is???....there are no "long" actions, just different bolt stops...unless its a wssm ... or a carbine in 243, 308, 22-250....

Seems high to me. Even if he is going to physically open the ejection port it still seems high.

IIRC it's $300 to true it, $100 for the bolt stop and the last $200 is the action work. Presumably the action work is cutting back the extractor and maybe the bolt stop and opening the ejection port. No magazine work as I'll be supplying my own stuff (Wiebe XRM).

It's your $$ but I sure would think twice about truing a 375. The rifle will also function fine without the ejection port being opened.

Last but not least don't ever use the word "presumably" in a cost quote.

Well I just asked him for a rough idea of price so I know whether to take the action up tomorrow when I pick up my other rifle so we can argue over price and specs. I always have everything in writing.

This is a New Haven gun, it doesn't even look straight to the bare eye, and I'm a perfectionist. It will also be one of two sporting rifles I own once I clean out the safe, the other being a .223AI for vermin hunting, so it'll have to be accurate cause it won't be just for shooting things up close. If I'm going to hang a cut rifled barrel on it (and that's my preference) it's going to get trued.

Does the bolt stop get cut or just the ejector?

quote:

Does the bolt stop get cut or just the ejector

Both are either cut or replaced. Just my opinion you will never see the difference if the action is trued or not. Your $$. If it makes you feel better or more confident then go for it. I read that you were blueprinting the scope holes not the full action.

Too much, to me. However, if you are one of those people who have to have everything perfect regardless of it's impact on function, and to whom money is not important, then you should have it done. Truing hunting rifle receivers is a waste of time and money, but that is only my opinion and might not be some one else's. Do not expect to recover those costs in re-sale. I have a 338 RUM that I made from a 7mm Rem Mag and it was not that hard to do. As pointed out, all M70 receivers are the same length. Mag box needs to be longer and bolt stop and ejector need cut back. Simple things. Since the feed ramps are in the mag box, no receiver alteration is required.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

Does the bolt stop get cut or just the ejector

Both are either cut or replaced. Just my opinion you will never see the difference if the action is trued or not. Your $$. If it makes you feel better or more confident then go for it. I read that you were blueprinting the scope holes not the full action.

The whole thing, though apparently a lot of smiths don't true the scope mounting holes. My first custom was a Douglas barrel and was not trued. I can't get groups better than 1.5" from it to save my life, and most worse than that. That's for three shots. Not going to do one again that isn't a cut rifled barrel and trued action. Not that I'm a great shooter but when I can shoot half minute groups with one rifle and pick up the next and shoot groups four times as large it drives me crazy.

quote:

Originally posted by RyanB:
including blueprinting scope holes

That's a new one. If they are beyond the reach of an 8x40 is he going to weld 'em up and redo them?

I hope it isn't the same person who did your first custom that is doing this one. I have used a fair amount of Douglas barrels and accuracy has never been an issue. As far as "blue printing" an action if done properly it can decrease group size a few thousandths, if the action was really out of spec, maybe a tenth of an inch. Personally for a 375 I would spend my time and money on making it function flawlessly, but that is me. I think almost any action/barrel combo will shoot minute of buffalo. Is $600 reasonable for the work to be performed? That depends on the reputation and quality of work done by the person doing the work.

quote:

The whole thing, though apparently a lot of smiths don't true the scope mounting holes. My first custom was a Douglas barrel and was not trued. I can't get groups better than 1.5" from it to save my life, and most worse than that.

OK I can see if the holes are way out of line having trouble getting the rifle to sight in. However them being out of "true" would have nothing to do with how the rifle would group.

If that includes a rebarrel, pretty fair,if not...too high.

If by truing you mean putting the action on a mandrel and running it through a surface grinder then I too think the price is a bit much.

If it involves removing the inner threads and cutting new ones, as many Gunmakers do, then it seems a fair price.

If someone is only getting 1.5 inch groups it is your barrel. Not the action. Not the scope mount holes. Could be a loose scope or really bad bullets. Could be stock rubbing the barrel. But it is the barrel.

The bottom rifle has had the wrk you describe done to it. Including the Talley knob. If it is done correctly, it should cost at least that.

Chuck

Were both of those done by Bill Leeper?

The bottom rifle was built by Bill Leeper but the handle was outsourced, and the top rifle was built by Mark Penrod.

By blueprinting I mean truing the face, re-cutting the threads in the next larger size (eliminates the remnants of the right side raceway) machining both the bolt lugs and the seat that they lock against.

Obviously mounting holes don't effect accuracy, but this is a New Haven gun, and who knows how much windage it takes to sight in.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
If someone is only getting 1.5 inch groups it is your barrel. Not the action. Not the scope mount holes. Could be a loose scope or really bad bullets. Could be stock rubbing the barrel. But it is the barrel.

I know, that's why the other half of the lesson is to use a cut rifled barrel. I know a Douglas should shoot better but Krieger/Rock/Bartlein/Border are my preference.

That's 1.5" three shot groups with 210 and 250 Partitions and 225 Accubonds. I had another guy shoot it to make sure it was me. I don't handload so maybe it just doesn't like factory ammo or it is chambered wrongly. Doesn't matter, I'm selling that rifle.

Each to his own I guess.

I remember being very happy hunting deer many many moons ago with a model 94 Winchester that shot 4-5 inch groups at 75 yards.

I see no reason, when building a custom rifle, to not have an accurate one. Having a rifle that is literally twice as accurate (let's say 3/4" instead of 1.5") because I paid a little more up front for a fancy barrel and machine time will likely not matter, until I'm shooting at a coyote at 350m, or a crocodile where a little bit too far back and I'm paying $4,000 for something that is rotting underwater. I have enough trouble shooting little groups off of sticks, I will buy this advantage if I can.

Darn all my submoa buttom rifle barrels on my inexpensive rifles will be unhappy to know they can't shoot.

RyanB

I think you need to do whatever you feel you need to do to have confidence in your rifle. It that is getting the scope holes blueprinted have at it. For my 2 cents you are spending a lot of $$ for nothing. But it isn't my rifle.

Ryan, that is my way of thinking, too.

I like cut barrels because on the balance they clean up easier and the match shooters tell me they last 20% longer. For $30 more it's an easy call.

I should have mentioned that I also have a preference for larger screws in general and would have them opened to that anyway, I simply prefer that it be done with care to make sure it's all aligned. I find it very frustrating to bolt a scope on and have it pointing in the wrong direction.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
Darn all my submoa buttom rifle barrels on my inexpensive rifles will be unhappy to know they can't shoot.

RyanB

I think you need to do whatever you feel you need to do to have confidence in your rifle. It that is getting the scope holes blueprinted have at it. For my 2 cents you are spending a lot of $$ for nothing. But it isn't my rifle.

Come on. Really?

quote:

Come on. Really?

What?

For a hunting rifle do "I" think you will see enough difference to justify the $$ to blueprint. Nope. For a hunting rifle will you really see the difference between a good quality cut and button barrel. Nope.

That said if someone wants that then go for it. I jumped through all those hoops years ago. Both while building and reloading. When I really put it to the test in a light barrel hunting rifle I just really couldn't tell the difference. I stopped caring if the rifle was 7/8" vs 3/4". The animal I was shooting didn't care either. All that mattered was I "KNEW" the bullet would end up where I wanted it to be. All that extra doesn't turn a rifle from a 1.5" to 1/2".

Key issue is a shooter must have confidnce in his rifle. If blueprinting and cut rifling adds to that confidence great. I will never blueprint a hunting rilfe again. Does that make the person that wants it done wrong. NOPE. A person needs to build his rifle the way that makes him happy not the rest of us.

Y'all need to roll back your foreskins.....

If your smith is skilled, it'd be worth twice that amount of money. You get what you pay for. But that price seems reasonable....even to a gentile like me.

It prolly was your barrel- Douglas suck. I too prefer cut rifles, but truth be known the one rifle that has bagged more game and traveled more
is my Sisk .300 Win, which has a Lilja barrel....go figure.

quote:

You get what you pay for.

No not all the time.
In fact most of the time you don't.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:

quote:

You get what you pay for.

No not all the time.
In fact most of the time you don't.

Of course you get what you pay for, unless you don't understand or appreciate quality, and where it can be found.

I think it would be safe to say that far more game is taken with button rifled barrels than cut rifled barrels, and more game is taken with rifles that shoot between 1 and 2 inches than with ones that shoot better than that.

But again, if you need a one holer then thats what you need.

quote:

Of course you get what you pay for, unless you don't understand or appreciate quality, and where it can be found

Sure. Higher prices have always given me better quality. NOT!

ramrod340, you remind me of the guy who only shops at Walmart, and claims that money can't buy happiness.

quote:

Originally posted by silvertip1:
I think it would be safe to say that far more game is taken with button rifled barrels than cut rifled barrels, and more game is taken with rifles that shoot between 1 and 2 inches than with ones that shoot better than that.

But again, if you need a one holer then thats what you need.

If I wanted to use what everyone else uses I'd buy a Remchester at Cabelas and be done with it. That's not why I am here.

Looks like your ego is showing.

I am simply surprised and frustrated to be debated so vigorously about all of this in this place.

Ryan,
I guess I'm guilty of not reading all your post. I don't know what you are after. Are you a gunrange guy looking to shoot small groups or a real hunter. I have found for me that a 1"MOA rifle will kill anything that I am hunting. It appears that you are not a BR shooter either. If you are shooting to show the guys at range that you or your rifle are on target, it is a different story.

I'm a hunter. Moving across the country to an apartment and downsizing to one rifle. So it's gonna be a nice one. In .375, for everything. Since it's gonna be nice, and fairly expensive anyway (wish I could afford to just buy a Legend) I want to do it right. I'd prefer that it be very accurate since my groups off sticks are twice what they are from a rest, and I need all the help I can get. And I don't want to have a windage issue like on my current M70 .375 (which is a pig and needs a diet).

Well,
If you need more than a 1"MOA rifle in 375, I ????

I don't need more than 1 moa, I'd like to be consistently under it. I had a Sako like that, used to shoot the heads off of birds with it out to 75 yards or so when conditions were right.