More short action craze here; guy asked me if I could build a 416 Rem on a short action Model 70. I told him he was crazy, but then realized he had more $ than brains, so decided to soak him.
Here is the layout; this is a Super Short Model 70, with a factory 416 barrel installed; fine large thread.
Fits perfectly. In the loading port you can see a 375 case; I will have to mill out a 1/4 inch slot to allow brass to eject. Of course, loaded rounds will not eject, so if you load it, you fire it.
Or just press the bolt release.
He wanted 5 down, but I told him 3 was it; I will have to move the box forward quite a bit, and I can get .4 inch more of mag room by milling out the center screw hole area; good thing the barrel has a huge recoil lug on it.
Short action mania. Never understood it but I will make money off it.

Well, I predict it will be the gift that keeps giving.

Good luck at getting it to feed right and extract right.

It’s probably going to be a recurrent problem for you until the guy decides he’s chasing it with good money after bad.

I can’t say that the magnum action length is a problem. I have a Dakota .416 Rigby that is pretty consistently sub MOA at 100 yards (5 shot groups) using full power 400 grain TSX loads.

I’ve got short action rifles that can’t shoot quite as well.

Go figure.

So nice to hear that you soaked somebody.

Is there much meat left to support the lower locking lug? Pre 64's had a bit removed and Mark X mausers (can't remember the company or gun name) in 375 had even more removed.

It sounds like your customer maybe planning on hunting dangerous game if wanting 5 down, if so he'd better pray every time he pulls the trigger he doesn't have a misfire

I thought you just make a 416 short mag wild cat

46 ruger and accurate reloading have entered the chat

Lower locking lug recesses are overbuilt on Model 70s. Plenty left. Pre 64s are totally different.
Why won't it it extract? Of course it will extract. It will also eject, which is a bit more important.
Misfire? When is the last time anyone actually had a misfire? Unless they don't know how to reload.
My client (customer is so gauche a term) will never hunt anything more dangerous than a cow. Maybe I should mill out another 1/4 inch from the ring. Maybe not.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Lower locking lug recesses are overbuilt on Model 70s. Plenty left. Pre 64s are totally different.
Why won't it it extract? Of course it will extract. It will also eject, which is a bit more important.
Misfire? When is the last time anyone actually had a misfire? Unless they don't know how to reload.

My client (customer is so gauche a term) will never hunt anything more dangerous than a cow. Maybe I should mill out another 1/4 inch from the ring. Maybe not.

I didn't mention anything about extract, you yourself said and I quote "Of course, loaded rounds will not eject, so if you load it, you fire it."

My point being you load a round, have a misfire, then your unfired round will not eject. Not what anyone would want in any rifle shooting any game let alone dangerous game more so when the customer wants the 'backup' of 5 down.

Don't you believe it, misfires do happen on occasion. IIRC not so long ago on this forum a warning and discussion re misfires from some Hornady (I think it was) factory DG ammo.
BTW cows can injure and kill too.

More money than brains client, a good 1st world problem to have.

The 416 express (350RM necked up to 416) or a 416 WSM would be alot easier project and able to match 450/400 ballistics. Not to mention easier to get to feed correctly.

Look forward to seeing how your project turns out.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
More short action craze here; guy asked me if I could build a 416 Rem on a short action Model 70. I told him he was crazy, but then realized he had more $ than brains, so decided to soak him.
Here is the layout; this is a Super Short Model 70, with a factory 416 barrel installed; fine large thread.
Fits perfectly. In the loading port you can see a 375 case; I will have to mill out a 1/4 inch slot to allow brass to eject. Of course, loaded rounds will not eject, so if you load it, you fire it Or just press the bolt release.
He wanted 5 down, but I told him 3 was it; I will have to move the box forward quite a bit, and I can get .4 inch more of mag room by milling out the center screw hole area; good thing the barrel has a huge recoil lug on it.
Short action mania. Never understood it but I will make money off it.

What if you drilled and tapped that honkin' bbl recoil lug for a screw and bed it for additional strength and rigidity?

Good idea.
Relax E27; I don't read posts before I answer; saves time that way.

Did the customer explain why he wanted to do this, dpcd?

Hopefully he doesn't frequent AR.

Why? There is no lack of misguided idiocy when it comes to guns and money.
And I do get it; don't need a reason. My job is to develop and implement plans; just like when you plan a combat operation for a Combined Arms Battalion task force. Tank Heavy of course. I can to that too.

Could have saved a bit of work by suggesting 416 Ruger..or if a handlaoder 416 Taylor

On the other hand...Man want's a blue suit, we turn on the blue lights.

You know you live in a 1st world country when people have enough spare cash to pay for a storage unit to keep their junk in.

quote:

Originally posted by wildmansix:
More money than brains client, a good 1st world problem to have.

The 416 express (350RM necked up to 416) or a 416 WSM would be alot easier project and able to match 450/400 ballistics. Not to mention easier to get to feed correctly.

Look forward to seeing how your project turns out.

How do you load the ammo??

dpcd said he could lengthen the mag well fore and aft to accommodate the round. But, the real question then is why don't you just use a long action M70? Basically, you are creating a long action inside a short action. So, you have gained nothing but a lighter wallet for no reason. Same length bolt throw. In the end, its about giving the customer what they want.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
How do you load the ammo??

416 Ruger? No; we are using a factory 416 M70 barrel. Not sure it will happen now though; guy called me and has been doing actual research and study. I might lose my usual $200 machine hourly rate.....frowny face here.
I think someone here told him it was a dumb idea. Which it is....
Oh, why the short action? Guy was reading all about how shorter OAL length rifles are better in brush hunting. I can't control these people.

2.85" Vs 3.34" take a half inch off the barrel but the brush might notice!

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
...
Oh, why the short action? Guy was reading all about how shorter OAL length rifles are better in brush hunting. I can't control these people.

Someone should have told WR et al. As I recall they made rifles for Africa with 28-inch barrels.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
...
Oh, why the short action? Guy was reading all about how shorter OAL length rifles are better in brush hunting. I can't control these people.

Someone should have told WR et al. As I recall they made rifles for Africa with 28-inch barrels.

I have had no /to little trouble with longer barrels.

But that said I have a 98 with a 27 inch barrel in 338/06 and it is a bit unwieldy.

Would not be ideal for following up wounded game in thick brush.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
416 Ruger? No; we are using a factory 416 M70 barrel. Not sure it will happen now though; guy called me and has been doing actual research and study. I might lose my usual $200 machine hourly rate.....frowny face here.
I think someone here told him it was a dumb idea. Which it is....
Oh, why the short action? Guy was reading all about how shorter OAL length rifles are better in brush hunting. I can't control these people.

Reading stories from those who have absolutely no experience in bush!

The arm chair experts!

I make all my own barrels 25 inches.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:

Oh, why the short action? Guy was reading all about how shorter OAL length rifles are better in brush hunting. I can't control these people.

Trying to duplicate Blaser footprint without straight pull action ..... ??

Few hunters do genuine brush hunting, at least not as I know it. Statements about handier rifles in brush are a bit over hyped mostly.

quote:

Few hunters do genuine brush hunting, at least not as I know it. Statements about handier rifles in brush are a bit over hyped mostly.

I have found that in the real thick stuff.

Like being able to see 10 foot or less . I sometimes use a 44 mag revolver. Put a 315gr HCWFN at 1300fps through a bears brain, it settles their hash real quick.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Few hunters do genuine brush hunting, at least not as I know it. Statements about handier rifles in brush are a bit over hyped mostly.

I have found that in the real thick stuff.

Like being able to see 10 foot or less . I sometimes use a 44 mag revolver. Put a 315gr HCWFN at 1300fps through a bears brain, it settles their hash real quick.

In Africa you can’t do that.

In Africa, going into very thick bush after wounded dangerous game isn’t much fun.

It is immaterial how long the barrel is, because you don’t have any space to move its direction.

First and foremost is knowing which way the animal you are after has gone.

And follow in that direction.

We have been very lucky, as we were in these situations a few times.

And the very basic hunting thing to do worked to our advantage.

Making the first bullet count.

I can tell you two specific lion stories.

We had a half hippo up in a tree in a valley between two hills.

Went up there early in the morning, and a large male lion was feeding, standing on his hind legs.

Perfect for a shot from where we were, which was about 100 yards away.

At the shot, he dropped, started growling, and disappeared from our sight before I could fire another shot.

The growling continued for quite a bit, may be a couple of minutes.

But no sign of him.

By that tree were large boulders, with deep holes between them.

We decided to go to the opposite hill and look down.

We couldn’t see anything.

Back to our hill again.

Down we went, all of us trying to be very careful, two rifles loaded and ready.

Under the tree there was an enormous amount of blood.

Quite re-assuring.

Slowly we tried to track him.

Then one of our trackers said “kufa”!

In Swahili means DEAD!

Both Roy and myself passed the dead lion within 1 yard, in a hole, and we didn’t realize it!

Second time we were moving a lion bait late one afternoon from one location to another.

Suddenly someone saw the lion walking towards us!

It was late, and the sun was below the trees.

And in the tropics once that happened it gets quite dark fast.

The lion stopped about a hundred yards from us, and started looking what was going on.

He was facing us.

I fired a shot at him.

He jumped up and started running into the bush.

Again, no chance of a follow up shot!

Again, quite a bit of growling.

The bush was quite thick, and the grass was dry, same color as the lion!

We followed his tracks.

Not a single drop of blood.

Robert, one of our trackers, saw the lion lying dead less than 6 feet from us!!

Tom, that's pretty interesting to say the least. And, I agree with you...why does the customer want this done? good question. Doesn't matter. It's like those car freaks who want to "soup up" their little rice burners.

A friend of mine had a Mazda Miata that he converted into a race car; purchased an install kit so he could put a V8 engine inside of that little thing. why would anyone ask...? Answer: How fast do you want to go, how much money do you have?

I remember a while back I saw a posting here on AR where someone was customizing a rifle. The guy was using something like a 1903 Springfield action and converting into a something crazy small (maybe a 22LR or 220 swift). I would be lying on the cartridge, but it was something similar to that. The time and money was not worth it in my opinion, but REALLY cool to look at !

I had several clients that showed up in Africa with pre 64 mod 70s in the 416 and 375 Taylors, I don't recall them having any problem?? Is this a poor practice?, they lengthened the box both fore and aft and rechambered..No argument just curious?