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I have been posting here for a few weeks now looking at what components I want in a new custom rifle, and general chat. The action of the rifle has been a big topic for me since I had no idea which way to go. Well I have it down to a few different ones and have received very broad mixed reviews on the Montana Rifleman 1999 Actions. Why? I would like everyones frank opinion on these actions. I have not handled one of them, but they look nice and appear that they would require little to get into a nice custom condition. I am looking at two action sizes: Professional Hunter [http://www.montanarifleman.com/prohunter.htm]  and short [http://www.montanarifleman.com/shortaction.htm]  Now can you all help me out here? Why shouldn't I buy one, or why would this be a good action? | ||
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I bought two of the standard chrome moly actions (LH and RH) and had them made up into .458 Lott rifles. They are an excellent and cost-effective choice at under $500. I talked with three gunsmiths after they worked with them. They had some quibbles, but nothing major. jim if you're too busy to hunt,you're too busy. | |||
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I am looking at two possible rifle. One in 300 H&H Magnum and another in 6.5X55 SE. How was the fit and finish of the actions you got? Were they smooth or gritty. | |||
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My 1999 action houses a 404 jeffery and I'm happy with it. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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They are fine starting points but you need to know that the PH is not in production nor likely to be anytime soon. Also, the actions are very large for their class. The "standard" will do the 30-06 to the 458 Lott (like the Model 70) and the "short" is actually only 3/16" shorter overall than my CZ 550 Magum 416 Rigby action. And as large or larger in girth. They make nice rifles but not petite nice rifles. The standard is well proportioned for a 300 H&H if you choose that route. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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you asked fo ropinions, so here is mine...there is absolutley no reason to make these actiosn this large and as a result, they are just too big for the cartidges. THe rifles wind up VERY heavy and clunkier than required for the power levels. Fit and finish is ok fo rthe rpice point, but you will ahve to pay or spend the time to get them up to fine gun standards (as with MOST actions out there). That is why I have no use for them. It is just my opinion an dmeans nothing to anyone else. But you asked for opinions, so there you go | |||
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They are project actions, I have the stainless short action in left hand and I cycled the bolt about 1,000 times in front of the TV and it slicked up really nice. As received the finish above the wood line is polished (not excessively on mine) but below the wood line it is as cast. The bottom metal was high quality and the trigger slicked up really nice and adjusted to 3 Lbs and pretty crisp. These are heavy actions with a lot of metal and don't make a really light gun. The short action will take a 3.25" load and works great on the intermediate cartridges (284, 6x55, etc) The long action will take a 404 Jeffrey and a 375 H&H no problem. The PH sized action is supposed to handle the biggest cartridges but I didn't think that it is in production yet. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Well it sounds like the short action is made for intermediates like the 6.5X55SE or 54MS, or 7X57 and the long action is made for the H&H length cartridges. It actually sounds as if the 30'06 class cartridges are being missed by this line? Correct? So, if I am looking to build a 6.5X55SE I should use a short action. If I am looking to build a 300 H&H I should use a long action. If I am looking to build a 308 WIN or a 280 REM, I should look for another action other than the Montana 1999? This sound like what I am being told. | |||
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SIDE NOTE! Fjold--I visit Bakersfield a lot. How is the weather there today. We have intense rain, and some of the areas near us have had over 8 inches in the last couple of days! | |||
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Not necessarily; they function fine in short calibers. Just find one and be sure the size doesn't turn you off before you invest. The CZ #3 rifle in the short magnums may be in a rack near you to look at. That's an MRC short action. Also, I changed out my extractor with a Williams unit just because a cast extractor gives me the willies. I have absolutely no basis for that; I never heard of a problem with them. Another plus is the Williams are so well shaped and finished it saved me a bunch of time otherwise spent truing up and polishing the exterior of the MCR part. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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I am not worried about all of the other calibers, just he original Mausers and the magnum H&H. If these are fit for those calibers, and seems they are, then I am good. Iwould love to have a 9-10 pound 300 H&H rifle with a nice cherry stock with an English style stock and barrel and nice recoil lugs. made with a 15 inch LOP and a 25-27 inch barrel to match my 6'8" frame and 250+ pound build. | |||
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sorry for the spelling and grammar problem.....dead batteries in the keyboard....you really should check before saying "post now." | |||
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They want $500 retail for the actions. They look like a cross between a Win70 and a 98 Mauser. I can get 1903 Turkish Mauser actions made in Germany 100 years ago for ~ $35. I like the 1903 Turks better, so my mix of rifles will be weighted away from the M99. | |||
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Yes I understand, but how much gunsmith work need to go into your Turk to get it into a condition befitting the other $2k you spend on the rifle | |||
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yes, but those Turks are all buggered up. Stamped & restamped, and the recent imports have outrageously long NEW serial numbers electropencilled/etched on. No doubt they were nice actions when made, but a nice one these days is a real rarity. Oh yeah, forgot to mention the short intermediate length magazine. 3.100" or thereabouts.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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My 1999 MRC stainless short action is attached to Lilja stainless 22†with a 1 in 12†twist barrel that was turned down to a .610†diameter at the muzzle in a .350 Rem. mag. It is set in a McMillan synthetic featherweight stock with a decelerator recoil pad and it has been pillar bedded and floated. The rifle has New England back-up iron sights and the finish is a bead blasted gunboat gray. I used Leupold QR bases and rings and attached a new Leupold VX-lll 2.5x-8x matte scope. All and all, I am reasonably pleased with this rifle and would not hesitate to use a MRC action in a future project. CP. | |||
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I have my MRC short action at my gunsmith's right now with a Krieger #5 contour barrel already to be turned into a 6.5-284. I got mine on the introductory offer a few years back so it was a lot cheaper and I wound up with a single digit serial number. I'd rather have the 1/4" longer actions because it lets me use the long bullets seated out of the case.
Way to dry, 71 degrees and sunny here. We have a storm system coming in tonight and tomorrow but were not expecting much in the way of rain. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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333 OKH, My action was polished above the stock line, and as cast below. This was an early action, and came with the Williams bottom metal. Since I was making up .458 Lotts, an action on the heavy side is fine. I grew up in Monterey County on the coast, which mountain are you on? jim if you're too busy to hunt,you're too busy. | |||
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Coastal Range...from Black Lassic to South Fork Mountain the longest mountain in the US | |||
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The M1999s are very serviceable actions. They were built as the basis for gunsmithing projects, so they can be used as they come, but they can also be subjected to a bunch of polishing and surface grinding. It really depends on what you want, and how picky you are. I have been happy with my LA in .270 Win, and I have a SA waiting to find a home. Btw, a current day M70 or a long M700 will also accomodate up to .375 H&H length cartridges. People use these actions to house .270/.280/.30-06 cartridges all the time. So I don't quite understand the hoopla about the M1999 LA being "too large". But hey, we all seem to have our personal preferences. The MRC SA is *just* long enough to take the 6.5x55 - the advantage of MRC deciding to make their SA a tad longer than normal. The box length of the SA will handle cartridges up to about 3.125". Even if you want to leave a tad extra space to load out your bullets when your throat recedes, you could chamber for the 140 grs NP loaded at or just below the base of the neck (OACL about 3.050 - 3.100). Chambering for that bullet seating will still allow 125 grs NPs to seat very nicely - I have not tried lighter bullets. All in all, I think the MRC SA should work well with the 6.5x55, provided you make sure your chamber is cut accordingly. Some (most factory?) 6.5x55 reamers are made for the looong 160 grs RN bullets, so they give you an awfully long freebore. Btw, the above OACLs should also allow most (if not all) factory loads to be used. - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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MHO- | |||
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MHO- weigh a M70, M700, and M1999 and then you will see why I say they are too large. In the context I wrote it, I was referring to weight. I mentioned that several times and thought it woul dbe clear. i am sorry it was not. There is absolutely no reason why a M1999 has to be so bulky and heavy for the calibers they chamber. If you like bulky and clunky rifles, that is 100% fine. I don't, and that is why I have no use for the montana actions. Why have an action with enough steel to hold a .375 and then build a .243 on it? | |||
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I checked with lapua on the ovrall length of thier 155gr Mega Point ammunition thinking this would be the longest around, and I like those long bullets. They responded that the 6.5X55SE with a 155grs Mega Point bullet was 2.815 inches. This should fit perfectly into the 1999SA. | |||
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Marc, do you always argue your points as if they are something to be angry about?? Ah well, your choice I suppose. I have to admit I don't have actions at hand I can weigh, neither a M700, a M70 or a M1999. According to a couple of sources on the Internet: www.serengetitradingco.com/m1999specs.pdf, www.montanarifleman.com/longaction.htm and www.brownprecision.com/SelectingComponents.htm, there is not much difference in weight between a M70 LA and a M1999 LA. Not too much point in comparing a M1999 with a M700, IMHO. Are the numbers correct?? I don't know, but these are the numbers available to me. As Savage99 often points out, the M1999 bottom metal is a bit clunky. I have to agree it is not the most elegant design I have seen, and maybe it even holds a bit more weight than necessary. So chalk that up as a (small) minus for the M1999. On the positive side, the gas handling ability of the M1999 rapidly approaches that of the Mauser 98, and easily surpasses what the M70 offers. Either action, M70 or M1999, is completely useable for a custom rifle, IMHO. Both will need some work to approach perfection, but at the cost they are available at, what can one expect?? - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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Where are Turkish actions available for $35? Steve | |||
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Well I might be very happy with the 1999 short in 6.5SE. This action looks like it was actually made for intermediates like the Mausers and not too short like the actions for the 308 Win line of calibers. I will load this 6.5 with 140-160 grain leads so the 3.125" length action is perfect! | |||
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August Special 
I am sporterizing a couple of them right now, and I love them. | |||
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I still prefer a commercial or I would go to the barreled action that SAMCO have for the Persians. 1999 Monatna I think in a lot of ways these actions are misunderstood. There isnt a true short action that is designed strictly for the 308 Win family (e.g. 243, 260, 7-08, 308, 358, etc), nor is there a tue action for the 30'06 family (25'06, 270, 280, 30'06, 35 whelen, etc). The SHORT action is desinged for the Mauser intermediates such as the 6.5 SE, the 7X57. The LONG action is actually designed to handle the long toms like the 300 H&H and the 375 H&H. So yeah, they are heavier than a standard M700, or a short action M70, but they are different rifle actions. I want an action that can handle original loads in the 6.5 SE and 6.5 MS. This is over 3 inches and cannot be handled in the M70 short actions. If you use a regualr 30'06 action then you have a lot of extra room in the box. If you choose to shorten a pre-64 M70 you run into a lot of expenses. These actions are not perfect for every caliber but they are for the two I am currently looking at 6.6X55 SE and 300 H&H Magnum. | |||
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http://www.surplusrifle.com/mauserturkish/ Join the NRA | |||
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Unless you own all your own all the proper machine tools and have an exorbitant amount of time to tinker with them, Turks are too much work to be worthwhile. They need too much polishing, truing, etc. to make a nice rifle out of. However, you *can* build a shooter on them and I just finished a 30-06 on a Turk that I'm pleased as punch with. But its not a best quality rifle either. I can't imagine how long it would take to get it to that point. I did it because I like to tinker with Mausers and this one only took me two years... I'd keep looking for a commercial to start with. Jason "Chance favors the prepared mind." | |||
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But how do they work with 404 Jefferys? | |||
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Didn't Rusty build a 404 on a M1999?? Rusty? - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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Love my two Long actions that are being made into 404 Jeffery rifles! Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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So was the fit an dfinish what you expected when you ordered them? I am seriously considering a short action 6.5X55Se and a long action 300 H&H Mag. Next might be a 450 Rigby or 505 Gibbs on the Professional action. | |||
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I think my only complaint from the outside it the bolt design and length. I prefer a bolt a little longer and positioned towards the front of the trigger gaurd, but otherwise nice....  Rusty, if you have more photos of your projects on these actions we would love to see them. When they are done I would love to see them too. | |||
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333, a gunsmith could put one in a vice heat it red hot and bend it forward (by bend I mean using a hammer). | |||
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Looks like that will probably be my action. Now for the Lothar Walther barrel....hmmmmm they said they had 1500 profiles to choose from? Wonder if I can find that H&H look-a-like? | |||
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Looks like they work good 338OKH, maybe that's not a bad way to go for the 9.3x70. I wonder the McMillan Lawson thumbhole will fit the Montana. | |||
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I have 25 pictures of my lefty, magnum long in stainless built up into a target rifle. I can scan them and send them as emails if you want to receive that many. They are cut down to improve the transfer speed, so you won't be waiting for any 1280x1024 photos to come over. I wanted to post them, but I have no idea how. I have read the various descriptions as to how it's done, but I get lost somewhere between all the URLs, UFOs and UBLs... My next project will be a Nesika Bay. Check out http://www.nesika.com and drool. They have several different sizes and styles; they can put the bolt on the right and the port on the left for you, and the machining is out of this world. My gunsmith likes Montanas; he says they are fine hunting actions and he has built quite a few of them. He also has several Nesikas in his safe. I have cycled the bolt on a few of them and all I can say is "better than sex." | |||
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