Does installing a three position safety (like those on the Model 70 Winchester) change the cocking sequence on a mauser?

No. Why would it? Bill.

Only if you chamgwd/changed out the cooking piece.

What prompted this question? The safety has zero to do with the cocking action.

I have two Interarms Mark X Mausers. One is in its original configuration and chambered in 7MM Remington Magnum.
The other has had a 3 position safety and a Blackburn trigger installed and is chambered in 300 Winchester Magnum.

The 7mm Rem Mag cycles smooth as silk. From the very start of lifting the bolt to the return of the bolt to its firing position there are no Shall we say interuptions. Just a nice smooth bolt throw.

But not so with the Win Mag! After lifting the bolt handle about three quarters of the way up there seems to be a catch of some sort where it requires much more effort to continue moving the bolt towards the top of its cycle. Then, on the way back home to the final resting place there is that same catch which makes the bolt mjch more difficult to continue to move downwrd.

What is causing this?

Could be rough cocking cam/cocking piece. Could be interference between CP and trigger sear. Swap bolts and see if it repeats in the 7 mag.

quote:

Originally posted by Kolo-Pan:
The other has had a 3 position safety and a Blackburn trigger installed and is chambered in 300 Winchester Magnum.

Who installed the safety???????

If it has a catch both on the up and down stroke, it can't be the cocking piece; it has no contact with the bolt cam on the way down. It could be the internal firing pin cam and the bolt touching; I have had that happen.
Nothing to do with the safety; install the original bolt shroud and it will act the same.
Or the firing pin spring is too stiff. Or rough threads on the new bolt shroud. Or the cocking piece could be dragging on the sear. Could be several things.

quote:

Swap bolts and see if it repeats in the 7 mag.

The 7mm Mag bolt works perfectly in the .300 mag receiver. However, the .300 Mag Bolt doesn't seem to want to go all the way in to the 7MM Mag receiver.

I prefer not to say who installed the safety because I don't want to imply that he did anything wrong. Suffice it to say it wasn't me.

I wonder if Interarms has new bolts for those receivers?

Zastava

Thank You!

A new bolt won't necessarily help even if you could buy one, which you can't.
Trouble shoot; determine the problem; don't start replacing parts. Basic problem solving rule.

Could be there is a high spot(s) on the .300 mag bolt. I've had bolts like that. You have to coat them in Dykem and find out where they are dragging, then stone that spot out. Test by removing the FP assy and working the bolt. Note if the assy is hard to unscrew from the bolt body. Also rotate the extractor to make sure it is free. Work the stripped bolt body. That should isolate the issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Kolo-Pan:

quote:

Swap bolts and see if it repeats in the 7 mag.

The 7mm Mag bolt works perfectly in the .300 mag receiver. However, the .300 Mag Bolt doesn't seem to want to go all the way in to the 7MM Mag receiver.

I prefer not to say who installed the safety because I don't want to imply that he did anything wrong. Suffice it to say it wasn't me.

I wonder if Interarms has new bolts for those receivers?

Sure it's mot a speed lock version? Oherwise, I'd bet the cocking piece (aka firing pin nut) has been bubba'd

Last resort...take it to a real gunsmith

I removed the .300 firing pin assembly and worked that bolt in both receivers. works fine

quote:

Originally posted by Kolo-Pan:


I prefer not to say who installed the safety....

Did they have THAT Blackburn trigger installed on THAT action when they installed the 3pos safety?

It may just be simply that the overtravel on trigger is set too close, and not allowing the sear to drop far enough to allow smooth function. Just a guess, but many who adjust the trigger themselves tend to see past that. All just guesses, need the rifle in hand to make a proper 'fix'. But, that is just what the internet is anymore,, guesses.

OK, our process of elimination is working. Obviously, the bolt body is in spec. Now, remove the trigger assy from the .300, re-install the FP assy and work the bolt. If it is smooth, then the issue is with the cocking piece and trigger sear interface. See Sliver's comments. If rough, then there must be an issue with the cocking cam or FP spring stacking.

quote:

Originally posted by Kolo-Pan:
I removed the .300 firing pin assembly and worked that bolt in both receivers. works fine

On further examination, I note that when the
tightening screw is just barely tight the bolt wont move and when its loose the bolt won't engage. So it seems that it's gotta be one of the other adjusting screws that isn't right??????

What ‘tightening’screw’ would that be???

The screw that tightens the trigger to the receiver

Does the tightening screw penetrate the tang? I could envision a screw too long and it interferes with the tang raceway or a tension screw that is actually warping the tang.

quote:

Originally posted by Kolo-Pan:
The screw that tightens the trigger to the receiver

It appears to me that screw hole does not go through

The set screw at the front of the modern adjustable triggers like Timney; it tensions the trigger against the receiver; it goes all the way through the trigger housing. Pushes against the receiver. It does not thread into the receiver.
Honestly I never thought the trigger starting with B had a rigid enough housing and would flex in use.
I only use Timney; they are much thicker, and made of aluminum.

Install a standard Mauser military trigger and test. If that cures it, get a new Timney.

or it may be the slot in the receiver for the trigger screw is keeping it from operating correctly. Take it to a gunsmith, not a garage mechanic

Or..maybe a lawyer?

I'm sure you didn't mean to say "the slot in the receiver for the trigger screw".
I'm also sure that no lawyer need be involved. Send it back to the person who installed in in the first place.

Here is a scan of the instructions for installing a Timney trigger which maybe helpful. Although not the same as a Blackburn trigger, the Timney is very similar and some of the fitting and function issues and remedies contained in this information are reflective of what has been discussed in the thread and maybe what is occurring with your Blackburn trigger.

The instructions came with the Timney M98K Sportsman trigger I purchased and installed on my Type A Oberndorf Mauser Sporter many moons ago. Apart from a little sliver of wood removal required in the stock, the Timney fitted and worked perfectly, able to be adjusted to give a light crisp release, with no further adjustment required over the last 30 + years of use.

May need to enlarge the image a bit to read.

K

FYI, there are two types of bolts/cocking cams/cocking pieces on these rifles
The old M98 deep cam.
And the later/current Zastava Speed-lock version
So the two will act slightly different during cocking, and the cocking pieces DO NOT interchange between them

If this the same barreled action and Blackburn trigger that was in my shop this past Jan.
The trigger housing sat wrong vs the bottom of the receiver.
I had two other actions in my shop at that time with Blackburn triggers on them, both had a shim between the receiver and the tab on the trigger housing

I super glued a .018" thick shim onto your Blackburn trigger housing pad to allow the trigger to sit downward properly and not allow the sear to go too far upwards and bind on the bottom rear of the bolt body and the nose of the cocking piece. I also told you about that shim

This was discussed at length last month on this forum when you had an issue with a loose trigger housing ? cross pin on a Blackburn trigger

Bottom line if the trigger housing is not in the correct position in relationship to the bottom of the receiver, then the top of the sear will drag on the rear bottom of the bolt body and the tip of the cocking piece

J Wisner

Kolo-Pan are your other two recent posts and this latest post re correct pins, loose pins, loose trigger housings and 3 position safety on Mark X Mausers, related to the same rifle and Blackburn trigger?
You say you didn't install the 3 position safety but say in one of your earlier posts, links below, that you installed the Blackburn trigger.
If it's all the same Mauser and trigger then there are a few things going on here.

Apology if I have got it wrong, just seems to be all inter-related issues.

https://forums.accuratereloadi...151072672#5151072672
https://forums.accuratereloadi...301076572#6301076572

It turns out that the shim Mr. Wisner installed was inadvertently removed from the receiver thereby causing the misalignment that further caused the cocking problem.

I am going to install a Timney trigger. Just wondering if there is a specific model Timney for the Mark X action.

Thanks to everyone for your comments and help.

Get the one for the FN Mauser, with no safety.

Timney # 201

HOWEVER changing the trigger means that you have a 50 % chance that the safety will not work properly and would need to be slightly refitted to the new trigger

Also many receivers need the front corners of the sear slot recess squared up to clear the Timney # 201 sear nose so it will drop down away from the cocking piece properly

J Wisner

I've worked on a bunch of minix 3pos safety installs and the are all different. The parts from zastava vary so much. They require a lot of work to get them smooth. I even shorten the cocking cam on the front of the cocking piece so the hand off when closing the bolt works smoothly. As Jim W well knows this install should only be done by a qualified smith. and should NOT be tinkered with after. Many times the threads in the cocking piece are not concentric with the outside of the cocking piece as well as the threads in the bolt being off as well.

My first minix is one of the smoothest operating bolt actions I've ever seen. However this has taken a lot of time and anyone wanting this done should not want their friends to think they ran out of money when they had their 3pos installed. Expect to pay quite a bit more than a standard 98 install.

Not looking for any safety jobs here as I've got several complete projects to work on.

As with any 3pos job, the bolt handle should be welded on first and PROPERLY fitted into the receiver.

I use the same trigger Jim mentioned. Standard 98FN Featherweight. They are not drop in.

WHAT! NOT drop in!!! But, the package says,,,,,,,

While were at it the V in the cocking piece has to be fitted polished and rehardened in some cases, That smooths things up.