I'mn considering building a project rifle, nothing specific yet, but I've been watching the classifieds for Mauser, Springfield actions as a starting point.
However, it seems that many of these actions sell for a price not all that far under the price of a good commercial action. Brownells lists the CZ 550 at $485 and it could be found for less yet I'm fairly certain.
Giving the need to alter and work on a mil surp action to get it "up to snuff" , ie bolt handle, safety, trigger, drill/tap, is it really all that good an idea to persue finding a surplus action or should I simply save up for a CZ?

quote:

Giving the need to alter and work on a mil surp action to get it "up to snuff" , ie bolt handle, safety, trigger, drill/tap, is it really all that good an idea to persue finding a surplus action or should I simply save up for a CZ?

A Browning safari rifle can be had for about the price of a well done milsurp action alone. A few have been sold here in the classifieds.

Look for a JC higgens or other rifle with a Belguim made FN action....many companies used them!

Also the interarms or Zastava actions are a good place to start.

Go to gun shows to find the donor action. It's a ball!

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I'mn considering building a project rifle, nothing specific yet, but I've been watching the classifieds for Mauser

Unless you get some fantastic deals and do the work yourself you can't build a rifle on a mauser action for the price of buying a decent factory rifle. You can't buy a good mil 98 and rework it for hunting for the cost buying a used commercial.

That said if I was building a high $$ rifle I would go mil 98. For a nice hunting rifle a FN (higgins, herter, browning) and even the early MKX make a very nice rifle.

The dealer cost on the CZ american is around $475. Many shops will order you one for just a few $$ over that. Finished with rings and stock makes a pretty good deal. If you buy the CZ action or rifle the barrel threads are metric. Some smiths don't like metric.

A good used commercial 98 will be in the range of $300-500. Often a barreled action. The daly can be had for around $250.

Tom,

A lot is being say that is good to listen to. the place to start is "What do you want the end result to be?"

If it is just a basic sporter then no reason to go military, if you want a high end custom then it might be a reason to go military. And of course personal taste is a big factor. Here is my 2 cents (worth considerably less due to inflation).

The military 98's, the ones that are the creme de la creme, had great tolerances, great steel, and were authentic non-modified Mauser design. That means left hand wall thumb cutout for stripper clips and gas escape. Means the full flange bolt shroud. The were also C-Ring versus H-Ring (a look through the front of a military side by side with a commercial without barrels mounted will show you immediately the difference). It costs a lot to make one top notch show ready customized. You could end up with 1500 in one if you weren't careful, which would still be about 1000 less than a commercial made to authentic mauser pattern.

Is it worth it? that's where preference comes in. Some believe it is the only right way to go if you are wanting that custom creation that will be your one special gun. others don't want to waste the time. Personally, I feel that things today are seldom made as good as they were "insert past date here". But budget determines a lot of that. Here is a run down on what you COULD end up doing with a commercial.

-surface grind to remove pitting and get concentric to bore
-new bolt handle welded on (not reshaping the mil)
-safety switch (25-150 depending on if you just want two position vertical safety to clear scope or mod70 style safety)
-drill and tap for scope
-aftermarket trigger
-hinged bottom metal (unless you get one that has it already)

Now, you can often find militarys that have all of this and more done to them for a good price if you just watch.

The springfield is another thing all together. the only reason to do that is if you really like the springfield design. I like springfields and have a couple, would not mind customizing it. but it would be for ethe liking of that action, not because it is a better choice. Remember, whatever people try to blow up your arse the mauser is IT, that is why it is the one companies have copied.

If you don't have an emotional or other reason for going with military then the commercials are totally viable, and if you get a good used rifle for a good price you can also make some money back from that by selling off barrel and stock, bringing yourself in at a lower starting point.

It is all fun. I always recommend the book on custom gun building by the ACGG, it is a good read on the process and gives some good worksheets that help you think of things you might not have. It is amazing how many components go into a gun and how many we often overlook when planning.

Red

If you use a military action, you'll be into it at the very least $600. I just ran the numbers on a Swede that I have been puting together over time.

I just say a JC Higgins Belgian FN in a pawn shop here for $300 (I may have to buy it...) That's perhaps you're most cost effective option.

A few months ago I bought a M-70 classic action only (formerly in 338 Mag) for $350 which is now a fine functioning 375 H&H......and you can't begin to get a Milsurp Mauser to do this for three times the money......feature for feature.....and I don't have to be concerned with heat treat with the classic Winchester.

I still love those Mausers however!

Who made the best commerical C ring true Mauser?

FN Belgian made C ring up to 1949 or 1950 I think.

Are they the only option for a commercial C ring?

How do they compare to a Milsurp Mauser not counting Safty, Bottom Metal & Bolt handle? As in tolerances and gas escape mostly? What is the differances?

Not talking about Mark X or CD their all H ring. Or at least I think so.

Allen

Nope, I have a Spanish Commercial 98 (I think of Centurian manufacture though it could be a Santa Barbara) used by Herters in one of their XK3 Magnums in 300 Mag. Nicely finished, C ring, flanged shroud. <$250 out the door...

Husqvarna marketed a nice "FN" commercial 98 C ring also. Nice rifles excepting the Birch stock.

FW Heym 720 (westernfield) was also a full c ring commercial, but it is intermediate length.

Weagle

Here is a C-ring m98 santa barbara action. Complete rifle 30-06 . Looks like a parker hale, except it is stamped sears on the barrel. Looks unused. I have never shot it. Want to sell it to finace other projects.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenBosely:
Who made the best commerical C ring true Mauser?

H&W #1
Mauser #2

gunmaker

Whats all of this C ring vs H ring stuff. Can anyone show me with objective evidence that it made much difference on your hunting rifle?

I like what Red had to say. It all boils down to what your motive is. If you want to make a rifle that you plan on owning until the day you no longer hunt and even longer than that, then what difference does a few bucks make. but if you want to build one, use it for awhile, and move it in order to build another one, then sure, you need to watch costs becasue buying usually selling a used custom rifle is a money losing proposition.

Also, of course, is caliber. If you are wanting a boomer, then it might be better to stay away from some of the early mausers unless you want to have them thoroughly worked over. It may be better in that case to go with the CZ or the Montana or a Winchester or a custom action such as the Satterlee.

On the other hand, if your project is for a nice lightweight deer rifle in 7 x 57, then I can't think of a better combo than a 1909 argentine or a g.33/40 or an Oberndorf A/N, or one of Vapodog's beloved VZ-24s with a 22 inch barrel, classic stock, new bolt handle, etc.

So first decide the caliber and use for the gun (hunting, target, etc.). then decide the action. then decide the barrel. The decide the excessories. Then decide the stock. And then decide the maker.

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or one of Vapodog's beloved VZ-24s with a 22 inch barrel, classic stock, new bolt handle, etc.

FWIW the VZ-24 is a "C" ring action.....at least the ones I have are.

I think the Germans produced a better machined product than those made by FN. If you compare 09 Arg actions made by the Germans & Belgians the German one just looks like a higher quality product to me. The VZ-24 actions I've worked on are a close second to a GOOD german 98. I'm not saying the FN actions are junk, just think the well made German 98 Military actions are better. Then again I don't have any problem changing a bolt handle or grinding a rear bridge for myself!!!
gunmaker
VZ-24 pic

here's a steal on a markx/CD
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=59928297

While I have used several Daly's. I prefer the early MKX. The ones with the lever release in the guard. If you watch close you can pick them up for around $300-325 for the complete rifle. Sell the barrel for $25-35 and the stock for $50+ depending.

Example
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=59951913

If you want a 300wm here is a good deal.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=60029095
This is a late model MKX with the cross pin. Has very nice wood. Few scratches so refinish would make it real nice. They have listed it for a couple months. I was in the store last week and they have it for $650 less if cash. Call them direct.

Your question begs a subjective answer, so I'll give mine.
I've recently had 2 commercial FN Mausers built from scratch (pictured left). I spent over $6000 on each, and they still don't have wood stocks yet.

Was it a good idea?

Best $12,000 I ever spent. They are the best functioning, best handling pair of rifles I've ever touched. I'm not bragging about the price tag, as it took me several years to complete the project.
I'm saying that no other guns make me covet them. It took me a long time to arrive at these, and most of the reasons are esoteric. But I did sell a full-custom Mark X to pay for these, mostly again because of subjective reasons.
My guns are ideal, for me. You should have the gun made exactly the way you like it. That's a good idea.

Slancey

What in the hell is the matter with you, coming on here and telling us about two $6000 guns and not providing us with detailed photos and information.

Yea! Id like to see Pictures of 6K in a commercial mauser with a plastic stock

Dang, I can't load the pictures.
Do I have to use a host site?
I've got pictures of the guns during construction.

quote:

Dang, I can't load the pictures.

Yep something like photobucket.

If you want send them to ramrod340@hotmail.com and I'll post them for you.

10-4
I'll email them straight away.
I appreciate your help.

Posts for slancey:


Posting Pictures: https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6321043/m/951100671

Thanks for posting for me.
The list of work on these is too long. They both weigh 9 pounds, one is 25-06, the other 30-06.

Okay, I see:

Grind front ring and rear bridge.
Grind and open sear slot.
custom fit scope bases.
3 position safety
Blackburn bottom metal
new bolt handles installed.
new barrel installed.
Blackburn trigger.

Well done.
Add to that:
Tweaked followers
Squared action body and bolt face
Alter feed ramp
McMillan stocks, aluminum pillar bedded, checkering filled, painted
Zeiss scopes
Blueing
Misc. other metal and stock work

Well, Slancey, you sure spend more money on toys than I can. I am humbeled. roger

bartsche, it's really a matter of whether you want to own 12 guns at $800 each or 1 gun at $9600. I've come to appreciate the subtleties of the gunmakers' art.
I still vividly remember reading Gun Digest in my grade school library in the seventies and seeing pictures of custom-made mausers. Many were made on FN commercial actions. I've always dreamt of having one, and now I have 2. They are exactly the way I want them.

Tom, you should think about starting with the action you like best, and build from there. Then you'll never regret your finished product.
For me the FN has that mythical quality that I can't prove on paper, but I can feel to this day.

quote:

is it really all that good an idea to persue finding a surplus action A.

or should I simply save up for a CZ? B.

A. No. B. A CZ or perhaps an older commercial FN action, like those on the old J.C. Higgins rifles.....