Bought a real nice 1909 sporter today which somebody had put a new 8mm barrel on it and I am assuming chambered it in 8X57.
Why anyone would do that, I don't know.

Anyways, got the gun for a song and a dance and am thinking about setting the barrel back and chambering it in 325 WSM. Afterall, I have to make use of the muzzle break that was installed on the barrel, right?

To my dismay, I find nobody manufacturing reamers for the 325. I am going to guess that I am running the wrong search, but please, somebody point me in the right direction for a new 325 reamer.

-Spencer

Spencer,
Manson and clymer will make them, give either a call.

but, dang it all, 8-06 improved is about the same thing, and very much easier to get to feed

jeffe

One could use a 300WSM "piloted" reamer.

I did some research on this several years back when the 300 WSM first came out. You would have to "set back" the barrel @ least .135" (if memory serves me) to "clean up" the 8X57 shoulder.

Also,the barrel wall thickness would be marginal @ the shoulder.

It could probably be done, but...........

I've got one made by Pacific I'll be happy to sell you. Used once. $100. Paid $150.

You could rent one here, 4-D Products

jeffe posts wisely regarding the 8-06 AI.

Bob-
Thanks for the offer. I will keep that in mind.

As for the 8mm-06 AI, that means putting money into a custom set of dies. If I already had a weird set of dies like that around, then I probably would consider it more.

-Spencer

Spencer,
just did a little checking..

8x06 IMP, your choice of 24, 28,30, or 40 degree shoulder, $72.45 at ch4d, or about $40 more than the wsm dies..

did i mention it's pretty easy to get to feed??>!?! LOL

jeffe

Dammit Jeffe!
Why do you have to make my life so difficult!?

All I wanted to know was where to get a 325 reamer, but then you have to come in and tell me all about the fancy shmancy 8-06AI.

How is the quality of CH4D?
Hopefully not the same as the old C&H company.

Maybe you are right, mainly because of the feeding. The more I think about it, the more I start to figure that ugly short fat 325 might be too much trouble to get to feed.

So, gimme some details. Sell me on this idea of an 8-06AI.



-Spencer

Spencer,
this will be easy...
1: find someone with an 8-06 imp... doesn't matter which one...
2: call dave at ch4d, tell him which one you got
3: tell him to make sure the crimp taper works right
4: send your money...

if possible, if you supply him the print for the reamer, he'll knock the right "thou"s off it, and you'll be perfect.. if not, cut the chamber, fireform some brass, and send him 3.. it'll be 8 weeks, but it'll be perfect.

the ONLY problem I have had with them (470mbogo, 500 jeffe, 585 nyati, and 550 express) is that the seater wasn't long enough to set the bullets in one op and then crimp in the next.

jeffe

quote:

1: find someone with an 8-06 imp... doesn't matter which one...
2: call dave at ch4d, tell him which one you got
3: tell him to make sure the crimp taper works right
4: send your money...

1: I know nobody with a 8-06AI gun
2: refer to #1
3: Why ask if the crimp will work right? Furthermore, I prefer not to crimp alot of rifle calibers as I see not the reason why.
4: How much and how is their quality?

quote:

if possible, if you supply him the print for the reamer, he'll knock the right "thou"s off it, and you'll be perfect.. if not, cut the chamber, fireform some brass, and send him 3.. it'll be 8 weeks, but it'll be perfect.

Take the right thou's off? Should the reamer not cut the correct chamber when I receive it and then he make a die accordingly? Send him some cases then wait 8 weeks. For what? For him to fix any mistakes he made in the first place? It takes him 8 weeks to satisfy his customers?

quote:

the ONLY problem I have had with them (470mbogo, 500 jeffe, 585 nyati, and 550 express) is that the seater wasn't long enough to set the bullets in one op and then crimp in the next.

It sounds like you've had more problems with him that just the seater, what with sending brass and dies back and forth and such. Furthermore, if this is a custom set of dies, why don't they work to your specifications when you first get them. It sounds as if you have ordered quite a few sets, and not one of them has been what you ordered?

Please Please Please tell me I am missing something here.

As I see it now:
CH4D makes some sketchy stuff that will require as much time/work as it would to get a 325 and fix the feeding. After all, If I had 8 weeks to sit on my thumbs, I would just wake the 325 feed in the first place.

Here is what I see as potential in the 8-06AI:
1. Easier to get brass, although 325 should be easy for awhile.

2. Little to no feeding problems as compared with the 325 which will require quite a bit of work.

3. Similar balistics, with 325 getting the edge, but when comparing the work involved, the 8-06AI would seem to save some hassle in the function department.

Once again, there has to be something I am missing. If possible, please elighten me as to my misconceptions.

Currently:

-Spencer

Spencer,
Morning..

I think you read me wrong..\
first, the only die i had a PROBLEM with was the ONE 550 express seater being too short, the others where and are fine. I meant to list them as an example of how many i've had from them.

secondly, in 8 weeks he'll make you custom dies, for the same price as stock dies, for your EXACT chamber/reamer, if you like. This is a GREAT service, and for 74bucks, vs the 300+ from rcbs for custom dies, it's a screaming deal

third
you can order anything you like from them, and if the wildcat reamer was made to the same prints as the dies, you are in high cotton, if there's a problem, dave will work to make it right.

fourth
on custom chambers, it's easier and standard practice to provide either the reamer print or 3-5 fired brass. I learned this from RCBS about 16 years ago, when I had a problem with their dies and my birthday present 257 roberts... "please send us 3 fired cases"

So, if you order a reamer, call Dave Manson, at precision reamers, and ask him to fax the print over to Dave Davidson at ch4d. ch4d will then (when you call them) start on your brand new dies that will be perfectly made to the reamer!!! These two have been doing that part for years

So, 74 bucks for dies, 30-06 brass that's there for the asking, no real feeding work, a "real" 8mm, nearly identical performance, and dies that fit your chamber perfectly.


I've heard 3 or 4 people complain at ch4d dies.. that they aren't perfect "like rcbs".. and I've talked with dave on a couple of those folks. Some people have had legit complaints, some just make it worse for themselves.. I just call the guy up and tell him what I want and what I am doing.. and then i LISTEN to the guy who's been making dies for about 500 years when he tells me what I should be worried about.

he saved me 3 months on my 500 jeffe when I built it, as his normal dies weren't the same print as my reamer... and there were right when they got here.

jeffe

Although I am a "rabid" fan of the 8mm-06 A.I., it will not equal the 8mmWSM.

With an 8mm-06 A.I. in the 23 1/2" military barrel, one can expect +-3000fps w/Nosler 180gr BTs, +-2800fps w/200gr Nosler Prtitions.

About 150fps slower than the 8mmWSM (325WSM)

All that being said, the 325WSM conversion w/a "military" barrel is somewhat questionable. The 8mm-06 A.I. is pretty straight forward.

Dave Manson at Manson Precision or Dave Kiff at Pacific Tool & Gauge (PTG) can make a reamer to any specs you need and they're both top quality tools as are others in the industry. It's not standard practice to use the actual chamber reamer to cut a sizing die as the die will not reduce the case as needed, it would simply be the same as running it back into the rifle chamber. You can use the chamber reamer to build a bushing neck sizing die. The sizing die reamer has to be a couple of thousandths smaller so the case will actully be re-sized and will fit in the rifle chamber again. Hornady will make a custom two die set for $90 on their CNC machinery (no reamer required) and generally get them done in about 6 weeks, I have the contact info if you're interested. But....you will need either the reamer print or 3 fired cases to send them.

Jeffe-
Don't ask me why I could not make sense of your post last night, I don't even know how I was confused.

It all makes sense now.

Step 1: Order Reamer from Dave Manson

Step 2: Ask Dave Manson to fax a print of said reamer to Dave Davidson

Step 3: Wait 8 weeks for dies and in the meantime fireform some brass

Step 4: Get my dies, load some ammo, and have a nice tall glass of Shut the **** Up!

Sound about right?

-Spencer

WTF?

Are you guys talking about 8mm-06 A.I. Dies?

I bought mine from RCBS, not a custom die, but a series "D" die. They are listed in their catalogue, about $80.

It is then a simple matter of "necking up" some "06" brass (with the sizing die) and fireforming.

I'm pretty sure 8mm-06 is in D Group, but I don't know about 8mm-06AI.

If it is a normal set, then that would be great.

-Spencer

other than there's 4 different angles for the reamer...

perhaps you could get rcbs to give you the print they worked their dies from..

Oh, i might have read this wrong, but if someone misunderstood me on ch4d and the reamer print...

ch4d will take the reamer print and make the dies smaller.. i don't actually know how much, but I THINK it's back to the cartridge nominal drawing... but they can work from the reamer print and have it perfect

jeffe

It would have to be smaller.

-Spencer

Although there may be many shoulder angles on 8mm-06 IMP cartridges, the Ackley Improved version is 40 degrees as is the RCBS Die.

My chamber was done by Harry McGowen with a 30-06 A.I. reamer using a pilot bushing. He then cut the throat with an 8mm throat reamer to match my dummy round with an 8mm 180gr Nosler BT at a COL of 3.34" This is by far IMO the best route to go.

If an Ackley Improved chamber is done properly one only has to neck up being carful not to "bump back" the "standard" shoulder. This allows the standard case shoulder to headspace with a slight "crush fit".

It is a lot simpler to convert a M98 from 8X57 to 8mm-06 A.I. than you might think. I paid $125 for the chamber job, $55 to throat and crown the barrel and about $80 for the dies.