The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing Action length - practical advantage?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I read a good many posts on the "advantage" of a short bolt action over a standard length action. The difference in bolt throw between a short and long action runs between .5 and .7 inches. Does that really represent a practical advantage in the field? Can you remember a time when you could not work the action fast enough for a follow-up shot because you were using a standard length action? Have you actually measured the time difference? Why are standard length actions adequate for DG where fast follow-up can mean the difference between life and death, but undesired in a whitetail gun? My opinion is that, with a practiced operator, there is little if any practical advantage. I have no way to measure the time difference, but I can't imagine it amounts to more than a tenth of a second to move the bolt the extra distance. I believe the most important factors related to fast bolt operation are ease of cocking, degrees of bolt lift, and slick feeding. What do you all think? | ||
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I have not timed any bolt motions, etc. I don't know that action length can reduce short stroking and chambering nothing. I do know that the correct magazine opening (length and width) and follower result in better feeding. I do not like wasted action length. If it is H&H length why use a 30-06 length round etc. I also believe that the shorter the action, the stiffer the action. PA Bear Hunter, NRA Benefactor | |||
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Maybe it's not bolt stroke length, at all. How about overall length and weight of the rifle... Honestly, a gimmick to sell rifles, and not a bad one at that. PS and what airgun1 said...  Roger Kehr Kehr Engraving Company (360)456-0831 | |||
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Roger, wouldn't a long action give you a larger palette? Butch | |||
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iirc, the mexican 1910 action is a whoop 1.5 oz (might be as much as 3) lighter than a standard 98 the difference, if the cartridge fits, is largely cerebral .. between the owners ears... which is frequently reflected in inflated prices, for shorter or longer opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Assuming that we ignore the potential cartridge, to me there is no practical advantage. Cosmetic, absolutely. Practical, maybe not. I like small, intentional rifles. If I am building a .223, I want a small compact, lightweight gun, purpose built. While the Mexican action may only weight 1.5oz less (is that complete or just the receiver?) what about the completed rifle? Wood and all? You see, you also have less wood, less bottom metal, etc. Now, on the flip side, sometimes you just cannot get what you want in that small package. I used to drive a F-350 Crew Cab with an 8ft bed. Could I get the same out of a smaller truck? No, not really, I could have tried, but it just would not have worked as well, or could not be done at all. Nathaniel Myers Myers Arms LLC nathaniel@myersarms.com www.myersarms.com Follow us on Instagram and YouTube I buy Mauser actions, parts, micrometers, tools, calipers, etc. Specifically looking for pre-WWII Mauser tools. | |||
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Yes. Life and death. Read the reference to just that in either Hesketh Pritchard or McBride where the faster second shot of the Enfield (or Ross) over the Mauser cost the German sniper his life. In a hunting rifle I doubt it makes a difference. In a battle rifle I'd take an Enfield over any Mauser every time. | |||
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And you'd get mowed down by a kid with an AK. Battle rifles are an entirely differenct breed. ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
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I'm talking bolt vs bolt BTW! | |||
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I've been feeding this line to my wife for 30 yrs.  She's not buying it. Roger Kehr Kehr Engraving Company (360)456-0831 | |||
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I doubt it's as much as a tenth of a second. Besides what you said, another factor may be the shape and position of the bolt handle/knob itself. Too short, and knuckles get in the way of the scope, too long and it's awkward. Some tactical knobs may help. The main thing for me is to match the action length to the cartridge. It's silly to me to barrel a long action in 308 for example. It looks to me like the Tikka T3 is one action length fits all. IMO they should offer short and long actions, like they used to do with the 595, and 695 Tikkas, and like Sako does. The Tikka has just about the slickest operating bolt I've tested. Take the popular Rem 700 for example. The long action is longer than necessary for the 30-06, and is actually long enough for H&H cartridges, thus IMO, the only cartridge really suited for a Rem 700 is the 275 H&H. It's a perfect match.KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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Agreed. Only Jesuits, Pentecostals, Shi'ites and Orthodox Rabbis argue about such stuff. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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I hunt where its cold during regular hunting season. Because my fingers get so stiff, I have found that it is harder to feed 308 shells into a short action than it is to feed 3006 shells into a long action. (Both Remington 700s) | |||
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Respectfully, I am amazed at the stuff that shooters cary on with. What practical difference will .5 to .7 of an inch make? Geez, I can understand shorter lighter rifle etc, but working the action is not going to matter. I own short action Sako's and Ruger's, standards action Winchester's and Mauser's and magnum length Brno's. In the field I've never noticed the difference, hope this helps. | |||
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This is summarised so well that one can hardly add anything to it. The main thing is to try and match the action length to the cartridge. Sako did that in 5 different lengths in 1997 when the Sako 75 was launched, and added another one in 2002 for the Short Magnums. Regardless of which Sako action length you chose, you are getting a 70-degree bolt lift, by way of a three locking-lug system, along with an extremely smooth bolt travel. This is appealing, cute and perhaps an improvement on most other traditional systems. The point is that seldom if ever, will you hear that a guy with a 1898 Mauser action (old fashioned) will complain about it being too slow or the bolt lift degrees not being right. Practically it is not that critical. What is very desirable is to have - a bolt that glides smoothly - secure feeding and extraction - that the handle and its knob relative to the scope does not hinder the fast chambering of a round Warrior | |||
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+1 on the last two posts. If you think about it a minute, that .5-.7 less or more travel happens at the end of the stroke when the bolt is at maximum acceleration and the difference can't be more than a few thousandths of a second. If the defining criteria is bolt cycle speed, then a straight-pull action like a Blaser is a better answer than action length. Having to operate the bolt in two directions (up and back) is the slowing factor more than the difference in bolt length. Even so, getting the rifle sights back on target takes longer than any of the above for 99.9% of us. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Completely agree. That is of Major importance to people interested in Winning BenchRest Matches. Me too. I do not want a 223Rem built on a 416RemMag action, nor a 308Win either. If it is not obvious why to anyone, then you need to carry a 416RemMag around for a day. And lastly, Action Length is something to "Argue" about!  | |||
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Wrong. The extra .5" is at the beginning of the bolt throw when you're just getting started. It adds an extra 5 seconds to the cycle time. I know because shootaway told me. ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
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I think you're confusing matters. I understand the shorter throw action chips less paint on the shooting helmet. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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