FYI

I just received one in 7x57, Fancy grade. I had a Brazilian '08 with a beautiful crest on the front ring, that I didn't want to drill & tap through; so it will be a compact woods rifle with open sights.

The wood shows promise -- black walnut, with lots of curl figure, as advertised. The inletting looks pretty good too -- having just cleaned up a Richard's stock, I was amazed at how smooth this one was. It is undersized slightly, so good fit should be attainable if I'm up to it.

Now, has anyone come across a blank for a quarter rib that will fit the A & B F14 contour?

Best,
Todd

I have noticed that the A&B barrels are quite affordable. What kind of experiences have you had with them?? I would hate to get one and then realize the old addage, "You get what you pay for."

I have fitted quite a few A&B barrels for customers in my shop in the last 4 years.

These barrels weren't just screwed in and finished reamed. The only way I will fit them is to true the face of the action ring, lap the locking lugs and machine the barrel stub so that the torque ring and face of the action ring torque up at the same time. Then the chamber is finish reamed in the lathe with top quality reamers to minimum head space. A lot of their barrels are not crowned accurately at the muzzle and some of them have burrs. So I usually recrown them too.

Having said all that, about 4 customers out of 10 report sub minute accuracy, about 4 out of 10 report about 1.5 minute of angle accuracy, and about 2 out of 10 report no better than 2 to 2.5 minute of angle accuracy.

I've inspected these barrels with a bore scope and they are a little rough, light years away from a Shilen or Hart. But consider what you pay for them.

My personal opinion is if you are after extreme accuracy then they are a crap shoot. If you're after hunting accuracy you will be OK. If you do your own barrel fitting then it's worth the gamble ( I've used a couple for myself ). However if you are after extreme accuracy and you are paying me to fit the barrel then you should buy a quality barrel. The greatest portion of the expense of rebarreling is the gunsmith labor. ( If the gunsmith is cheap, beware! ) So the extra money spent for a high quality barrel is cheap insurance that the finished product will perform to your expectations.

If a gunsmith quotes a low price for fitting a pre threaded short chambered barrel then he is probably just screwing the barrel in and finish chambering by hand with an extension. It will get the job done but is certainly not the best way to do it.

Craftsman, I find your report quite odd, other people have reported 1/2 moa groups with their A&B barrels.

I have to agree with Craftsman. I prefer not to install them. I built a 6mm Rem on a Model 7 for a local customer 2 years or so ago using a Douglas air gaged blank. He was really happy with his .137" groups so about 6 months later he brought in a 98 action and a Midway catalogue showing me a stock and barrel combo that he wanted in .270 Win. I read the A&B ad for the first time that day. It stated that the barrels were air gaged but didn't give a tolerance. Well you can air gage a coffee can. So I gave A&B a call to ask what tolerance they gaged to. The person I spoke to had no idea what I was talking about and said that I should call their BARREL SUPPLIER. So I called ER Shaw to confirm what I already knew. ER Shaw doesn't air gage their barrels. I explained all this to my customer and he decided to go with another Douglas. Since then I've put a few on for folks but have had mixed results just as Craftsman stated. I've not seen 4 out of 10 sub-moa but there have been a few that shot 1" with factory ammo so with handloads you should be able to do better. George

GSF1200

Some of my customers have attained 1/2 inch accuracy at 100 yds with A&B barrels but certainly not all of them, only about 10% to 20%.

The odds of getting a barrel capable of 1/2 minute of accuracy with Shilen for example would be about 80% or 90%. If using a rigid action, good stock and bedding, and an inherantly accurate cartridge then the odds would be 99%.

The cost differance between A&B and a quality barrel is only $60.00 to $75.00.

Just for example lets say you were going to have a rifle rebarreled with a A&B barrel for a total cost of $325.00. The gunsmith says for $75.00 more you can enhance your odds of having a rifle to shoot under one inch at 100 yds from 20% to 98%. Is it worth it?

This post is not debating the quality of A&B barrels, as I've been happy with those I've used.

What I'm curious about is the ER Shaw/A&B connection. This is at least the second time I've heard this put forth. Has anyone had this confirmed by Midway or ER Shaw or is it rumor?

Sam, ER Shaw does make the A&B barrels. They are not a premium quality barrel like a Shilen, Hart or Pac-Nor.

GSF1200, as I said in my post, my question was not about the quality of the barrel.

My question is/was, has anyone confirmed that ER Shaw is making the A&B barrels? By confirmed I mean actually talked to someone at Midway or ER Shaw, not read it somewhere on the net or heard it at a gunshow. If you have a source for your info, please share it.

Sam, I heard someone called A&B, and they said yes ER Shaw makes their barrels.

Hmmm, let me see if I've got this straight. Midway says their A&B (a wholly owned subsidiary of Midway?) barrels are air-gauged, A & B says their barrels are actually made by E.R. Shaw, and E.R. Shaw says they do not air-gauge their barrels. I pick up my fast-twist A&B barreled .22-250 from the gunsmith next week. And I saved my old Midway catalogs. If that rifle doesn't shoot, the state consumer protection agency (I think there is one) is going to be calling Midway. Will a class action suit work?

what is the purpose of the fast twist 22-250's?

GSF 1200,

The fast-twist (1 in 8") allows the .22-250 to shoot the 80-grain HPBT bullets, which require the fast twist because of their length. I wanted a rifle that would do two things my other rifles wouldn't: 1) shoot sub-1/2 MOA at 100 yards with no recoil (only 1600 ft.-lbs.) so women of light construction could shoot it comfortably, and 2) shoot at 1000 yards with the same bullet drop as my 220 grain HPBT 2750 fps .300 Win. Mag. load with no recoil and build up into a lighter rifle.The Sierra rifle manual says the 80-grainer at 3150 fps will do that.

So it's a 1000yd target rifle?

I'll throw in a disagreement here..........

E R Shaw does NOT make A & B Barrels. They are made by Wilson.

I've used several A & B Barels, and not had a "bum" yet.

If you REALLY want QUALITY.....
go with a Lothar Walther.
Look up www.lothar-walther.com

Just to put the cat amongst the pidgeons, Brownells has some Lothar-Walther barrels on sale right now. As an asie, the two A & B barrels I've used have worked out OK. With handloads, they both shoot under an inch. FWIW - Dan

GSF 1200,

Keeping in mind that I don't have this yet, and because my trips to the range are limited, I don't know what it is yet and won't know for two months or so. I know I'm going to build it up with a laminated varmint stock and a powerful scope.

I hope when I am done I will have a weenie girls' gun, and a portable rifle with 1000 yard potential.

I have some women friends who would go shooting with me, but having already done this, I can tell you that they don't like the black metal military .308 (style thing) or the 8mms, the .300 is too much, and they won't go near the .338-.378 or the .510-.505 Gibbs (duh!). So I'm trying to make more attractive flypaper that I will have a use for as well.

SDS -
Just something about a woman with glasses, muffs and a high powered rifle, isn't there?

R-WEST

------------------
"Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son"
Dean Vernon Wormer - 'Animal House'

If they are made by Wilson, that would be better than a shaw. Wilson does in fact air gauge their barrels.

It doesn't take much to air gage a barrel, and claim air gaging, unless its done with intent to measure...

second rate barrels are second rate barrels, end of story..you get what you pay for and if 2" groups are satisfactory then Wilson, shaw barrels are OK and you can allways get lucky...I prefer to pay the difference and get a Lothar Walther, I know its going to shoot. the extra $75. bothers me not.

I don't use those barrels, but I have rebarreled a lot of them that didn't shoot well...and I know a lot of gunsmith who have done likewise...

Like the man said its a crapshoot and its your choice..

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Roll the dice & hold your breath with the A&B barrels.

------------------
NRA Life member

I have one A&B barrel, and I don't plan on getting another. If you are looking for a low dollar gun, and a low dollar chamber barrel fit job, then it is a good match, and be content with the 1 - 1.5 moa accuracy you are likely to get.

If you are after something better then a typical off the rack factory gun, then start with a quality barrel, and have it fit by a competent gunsmith. When you are spending $200-300 for a careful barrel fit, chambering and action squaring it is false economy to the highest degree to start w/ an economy barrel.

To the original question, you'll have to get a 1/4 rib blank, or start with some 1/2"X1" stock and whittle out your own. I consider it false economy to fit one to an A&B tube, then again I'll have ~$150 in barrelband swivel, front sight and rear iron on my $70 barrel and a $150 re-chamber, not to mention all my labor when it's all said and done.

Terry, when I called ER Shaw about those they confirmed that they did make barrels for A&B. Now that may have changed since then but at that time they were making them. And they were a little miffed that A&B had told me. George

Ok guys, don't hold back on the barrels -- tell me how you really feel!

How about the stock wood? Anyone else had a chance to check it out? It's looking even better now that I've got it almost smoothed out.

Todd

Craftsman,
Thanks for the real world report on those barrels. I have never used them but wondered what they were like. Good to hear it from someone who knows.

Chic

I called A&B, they were very adamant that they make their own barrels.

Just for fun: well, okay, then, but if they make their own barrels, they've got a plant and it's got a physical location, and we can call them up and say how much we like our A&B barrels and ask to tour the plant. I've got mine back from the gunsmith, but I can't see my way clear to go shooting in less than a month. For one thing, my .510-.505 Gibbs dies are due back from CH4D at the end of February, and if I wait until after then, I can put together some faster loads for it and run them across the chronograph.