quote:

Originally posted by GrandView:

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:
So if you feel that those informations gives you a hard time, please tell, then i will keep my mouth shut, or join the corus singing beautifully, fantastic, marvolus and a true pice of art, every time anybody posts a picture of an avarage work, made by an smith with limited rutine.

Having seen Duane's work.....here and in person......I think he's already stepped up to the plate re: checkering. Particularly on this forum.

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...043/m/347103474/p/15

Perhaps we could see some of your work posted here?

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3221043/m/55010799?r=26010799#26010799
I ame not so talemnted on a PC, so i found an old tread , with a blury picture. Dont know how to link to an old tread, so please copy the link and insert it yourselve
Please pay atention that i never at any time has argued about the quality of Duanes work. I totally admit that what i have seen of his work her has ben of high quality.
This debate originaly started based on the flattop checkering shown at the top.
And i ame quite sure Duane would never have put the same quality on any of his stocks. That is why i ame a little confused about his answers.
The reason for his response might be that he has a computerscren with low resolution.

I ame also 99% sure that Duane will admid that everyone would pe capable of delivering the same quality, at a mutch shorter time, given a lot of daily practice.

There is also no doubt that he is a highly skilled craftsman. Just look at the elegance in how he makes the wide border a part of the design, that is a very elegant vay of removing the small over runs, witch is dificult to avoid, when wanting to cut sharply to the edge.
Those small detailes, is what realy mooves a top craftsman away from the crowd of wanabees.

I am not going to jump in the middle of this one, but Jorgen, I would like to know what your background is in gunmaking so that I have a perspective of where you are coming from.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
I am not going to jump in the middle of this one, but Jorgen, I would like to know what your background is in gunmaking so that I have a perspective of where you are coming from.

I ame an old man who for the last 30 years has ben dooing nothing else than working on learning how to make rifles.
Starting learning stockmaking as restoration, and replacement of broken or defective stocks. Continuing the learning process by trying to learn how to produce mainly riflestocks. Continuing trying to learn how to rebuild old mausers into sportingrifles.
Trying to learn how to produce parts as triggers, magazines, barrels and so on.
Trying to learn how to make complete modern sportingrifles.
Presently trying to learn how to runn a small factory, producing a few thousand complete rifles a year, including all the parts for them.

So as you can se, i ame just a novice, still trying to improve my skills, but i belive that i atleast have reached a few % of the way to becomming decent. when not compared to all the artists on this forum.

But please forgive me as i sometime has a bad habbit of calling a showel for a showel

Jorgen, I think you've raised everyone's curiosity and we'd love to see an example of your flat top checkering done by hand in an hour.

Tell us more about the small rifle factory...

quote:

Originally posted by 450/400:
Jorgen, I think you've raised everyone's curiosity and we'd love to see an example of your flat top checkering done by hand in an hour.

As i said before, we acttualy tryes to avoid flattopcheckering like the one at the top of this tread , so we strive to make them more or less sharp pointet, except on the realy cheap once, where we only spend about 20 min on checkering a stock.
If one would make a flattop with verticaly sides on the lines, that might be another issue, but the shown is with v shaped lines, with varying distance, angel and depth

quote:

Originally posted by SDH:

If one would make a flattop with verticaly sides on the lines, that might be another issue, but the shown is with v shaped lines, with varying distance, angel and depth

quote:

That is exactly what I see of the checkering in question.

What actualy do you se,
Vertical sides?
or what i see, Vshape, varying linedistance, varying depth, changing angel near the corners, conflicting or blury lines in the center of the wrap around, and a few overruns along the border.
This is not worse than mutch other decent checkering. But it is certainly not for the hall of fame.

New Guy,
Really nice lines, I like the mullerd borders, the forend cap, the bolt handle really got my attention, the checkering is awesome, I love the way the barrel band swivel flows to the forend and barrel band front sight, the barrel band island, and I could go on and on..A real African rifle that is "RIGHT"...congratulations.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:
Not to offend you, but what kind of salestalent is required to make people think that a semi finished checkering becomes unik, by calling it flattop

All my checkering people has started that way, comming and asking,"is it soon deep enough, to be called finished"
And after a few month they have learned that a checkering is ok when the tops are completly sharp.
When the checkering then becomes heavy used, it again becomes more exclusive, looking "flattoped"

It remindes me of the marketing guye who made new classic stocks becomming fancy.
In my oppinion, bacically both is way cheaper to produce

You're not even on the paper! ..flat top checkering is what seperates the boys from the men....don't believe me? Try it sometime!

Duane!

I think we need to see some Jørgens "jobs"..don´t you think?.

Jørgen here in denmark is the very very best one can find..he is second to none.
No one here in europe has more experience than Jørgen. Hartmann & Weiss go home..we have "Jørgen"...hahahaha.
But lets see what this "jørgen" can come up with..could be intesting for all here on the forum. Bent Fossdal knows him...maybe he can vouch for "jørgen custom jobs"

Link to Jørgens latest succes.
http://www.kammeret.no/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4261

quote:

Originally posted by SDH:

quote:

If one would make a flattop with verticaly sides on the lines, that might be another issue, but the shown is with v shaped lines, with varying distance, angel and depth

That is exactly what I see of the checkering in question.

It does look nice, and well, +1 for the variances... I am NOT the world's greatest at checkering, and my stuff sometimes looks like these..

How to tell?
look at the far LEFT on this picture

the unfinished diamonds er flattops are not the same size, shape, nor consistant.

Can I do better? HECK NO ... I pay for my checkering to be done, because mine aint ready for prime time yet

Jeffeosa,
I think your observation has more to do with lighting and angle in the photograph than it does with the checkering on the rifle..I suspect if you had the gun in hand the flat tops would in fact be very even...

I don't really think one can tell from a photo whether checkering is inconsistent becasue of the way the light shines differently on each diamond. I think you have to look at it in person to determine whether there are problems unless the checkering is so big, like say under 18 lines per inch.

I may not know Jack Shit, but I know what I like and that looks outstanding to me.

HBH

Isn't Jorgen the guy with all those South African made mauser actions. What where they called? I can't recall it at the moment.
Stuart

I do not know Jørgen in person, only through forums like this for some time. But he have amazed me over the years with his knowledge and experience.
I do not always give him right, as opinions vary, but he is the hart and soul of Schültz&Larsen, and has paid the price to get there.
Nothing is more conservative than old european gunmakers, and I think that is the main force for the american custom gumakers - they are not so stuck in old traditions, and are more willing to try out new ways.

I'll give Jørgen right in that industrial handmade checkering will rice the worker to a higher grade faster than checkering 10 stocks a year. Of course.
But I think if Duane should checker every day for a whole year, he would quit making guns. There is a difference of art and industry.

Jørgen has his time and place, and is a far better man than his english grammar and arrogant behaviour shows. He could learn most of us a lot, but I do not think a PC and an Internetforum is his best way of comunicating.
But I have learned to ignore the presentation and listen to what he says. He has more "hands on" experience that most people in the trade - he just have to realize that does not always give him right...

That said, the best custom guns the world has ever seen are made in the USA today, and I have never seen anyone doing it better than Duane Viebe.
I hope he will explain the differences between real flat-top checkering and unfinnished regular checkering.
The rifle in Q is hard to judge out of shiny pic's, but it appears well done to me.
To my personal liking, the forendtip is fugly, the checkered panel to big for the to small forend. And I do not like flat-top checkering. But that is all personal taste, and has nothing to do about the craftmanship.

Wow... leave town for a few days and this thing takes on a life of its own.

Despite the comments on the photos, I can tell you that the uniformity of the diamonds and the checkering are very consistent. You have to see it first-hand to really appreciate it.

Thanks for sharing your pictures. For me it's the best part of AR. I hope the peanut gallery doesn't deter people, amateur and pro alike, from future postings of their guns.