has anyone here besides me actually done this...mine was a disaster even though it shot. I'm looking for guidance.

Vapodog,

Did you do it yourself or have someone do it for you? There has been quite a bit of discussion concerningthe feasibility of this conversion over at the gunshop.com forum which specializes in doubles.

There is a guy down in Texas, I believe, that will convert a double to a low pressure rifle loading, usually a 45-70. He guarantees 1" at 50yds or something like that. the action must be in good condition and I think he prefers that it have an extra fastener such as a Greener crossbolt for the added strength.

He uses inserts that are eccentric and can be adjusted for POI.

Rob

I bought ellis' book, and it's on the to-do list for this spring.... the first one will be a 45/70...

lars did a 470 NE.. worked out pretty well for first time...


jeffe

I did it myself before I bought the book and now want to do it again. Building the monobloc was a piece of cake but the soldering of the barrels was nuts. I had those things so badly warped that I actually tossed them in the end...

I am planning on monoblock (got a HUNK of 4140 about 14" from my right hand this second for that) and threading them... Solder is for pipes!!

jeffe

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=518103&f=9411043&m=10010415&r=61010415#61010415
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=518103&f=9411043&m=450104231&r=433104231#433104231

Vapo, talk to Marrakai on Nitro express, he's done one on a greener action. He's written about it as well. If you do a search on nitro's site you'll find it.

Bakes

I have been told that a German company, Frankonia, makes liners that can be regulated with eccentrics for this purpose. I'm trying to find out more as I have a 16 bore hammer gun that I would like to make into a blackpowder double rifle.

Relevant to this same topic, where might one find express sights and a front sight of some sort that is appropriate for this sort of project?

Brent

vapo if the soldering is the main problem try using a hollow rib and use about a 4# soldering iron instead of a torch. Also will help to use a product called stay-brite and its accompanying flux. It will 100% cover without geting to hot. It's a low temp silver bearing solder so it will stay shiny, but melts quickly and has excellent tensile.

butchbloc,
I grew up about 20 miles SE of you and know some of the artisians there fairly well.....seems as though I'll have to move back just to stay in touch. There's a lot of fine artists there...and a few wannabe's as well

Next time you get to Ahlman's check to see if my .404 is blued....

I'll print your suggestions and follow as directed...

Vapodog,
There is a guy named Rick Stickley who used to do them regularly on a 20 gauge Browning BSS frame. He cut the barrels and then sleeved them using the barrel monobloc to build the double. I do not know where he can be located and have not heard of him for several years. He is an incredibly gifted metalsmith.

Rick Stickley used to live in Pocotello Idaho but skipped out and landed somewhere in Ga., he was incredably gifted with metal, but left owing a lot of folks some rifles and money..He usually had a table at the Custom Gun Guild show. I have owned a couple of his double rifles and I stocked a few of his doubles. BTW he only used 12 ga. Browning actions as far as I know unless he built some smaller calibers that I didn't know about...I know Rick pretty well and he is honest enough, but he just has a hard time remembering what he is doing and gets sidetracked very easy on another project and forgets to finish the work unless you stay on his case....

Personally I would not want a double rifle built off a shotgun action, most of them don't work out in the long run it seems and they got a bad reputation because of that...

I used NECG sights from Brownells.

I made inserts for the barrels, then filed the muzzle end off center and wedged to regulate and soldered afterwards. I'm not saying it's the right way to do it, just how I did it.

Do you have any pics of your project? I'd be interested in seeing them. What action did you start with, what caliber did you make it for??
did you chop off the barrels and use the stub or make a new monoblock?

quote:

---

Originally posted by vapodog:
has anyone here besides me actually done this...mine was a disaster even though it shot. I'm looking for guidance.

---

quote:

---

Do you have any pics of your project? I'd be interested in seeing them. What action did you start with, what caliber did you make it for??
did you chop off the barrels and use the stub or make a new monoblock?

---

I started with a cheap Brazilian import .410 action because I was only interested in the experience.....Ray's advice is something I already contemplated as I'd never try to build a .470 that way. I machined the monobloc and another one piece front block to encapsulate the front of the barrels as well. I chambered the used Springfiels barrels to 30-30 and they actually shot....but I couldn't hit the side of a barn from inside because I warped them so badly....this was before I knew there was a book out by Ellis. So I bought the book and read it.....

Only recently have I wanted to do it again as I'd like to add an extra set of barrels to my SKB collectors.....Yes I wanted to sell them...but this seems a interesting thing... I'm thinking chamber the 12 Ga action to .45-70 and the 28 Ga action to .44 mag.

Ray,
There was a lot more to the story about him owing money than you seem to know. The guy who was his partner, and I am sure you know who I am talking about, sold 4 or 5 hig h dollar spec guns and would not give Rick his cut of the money. He was owed a great deal of money on top of that and all he got for his troubles was a stay in the hospital as the result of the disagreement. Rick did make them on 20 gauge actions too and not on a 12.

An old gunsmith friend of mine is converting a Greener style triple-lock into one at the moment. He's unsoldered the ribs, removed tubes and has the 45-70 barrels on order. He's done several nice ones on Beretta's as double rifles and Cape guns as well as fixing ones that others have done.
Jeff P

Chic,
Yes I was aware of that, as are most in this area. Rick settled with him for a high dollar barreled action, which in itself was a crime, since Mr. B owed him about $50,000 and the action was worth maybe $7,000 at most, and Rick sold it for $3500 eventually..

It was a sad situation and not the first fellow to take the shaft from that well know builder of firearms.

The situation with Rick goes way beyond that, but not something that would interrest most on this board. All in all it is a pretty depressing story about an uneducated Mountain boy from the hills of Tenn. that was given a gift and just didn't know what to do with it.

vapodog - you should have seen what I ran into the other day. somewhere back in time a guy built a double out of LC smith 16 ga. using 2 8mm K98 barrels. he cut of the 16 ga barrels just in front of the action and turned the 8mm barrels into size and solderthem into the 16 ga. barrels. and then made a rib out of a piece of bar and soldered the barrels to it. it was the damndest piece of backyard gunsmithing i've ever seen. I don't know if i would have shot it or not, but whoever built it did. I would have bought it for 500 or so just to look at, but the guy that had it wanted 2000

Ray,
You probably hit the nail on the head. I expect that even if he was established, I would doubt he would have the business sense to keep it afloat.

BTW, that picture that Clark posted was the Guild rifle in 1995. The metalwork was done by Tony Fleming who lives in Reno and does incredible work. He is kept very busy and has a very low profile outside of his select customers. He started with a 12 gauge Model 12 action and then fit a set of 20 gauge barrels or at least the stub of them for the basis of a .405 Winchester. He said he chose the 12 gauge action for the extra strength but in hindsight he removed anough metal to make it fit the 20 gauge that he would been just as well served starting with the 20 in the first place.

here's the pics.....I dug this out of an old barrel I was throwing away...
The monobloc turned out quite well. I machined it from prehard 4140 and the extractor fit well too. It fit the action perfectly and fired the .30-30 rounds without fail.

I also made a muzzle bloc with an integral front sight and liked this idea so well I'd do it again. The idea was to keep the bores perfectly parallel. I wanted them to shoot parallel instead of centered at a distance.

What is the title of Ellis'es book?

Thanks
Jerry

quote:

---

Originally posted by Minkman:
What is the title of Ellis'es book?

Thanks
Jerry

---

Building DOUBLE RIFLES on Shotgun Actions

By W. Ellis Brown

http://www.bundukipublishing.com/doublerifle.htm

Charles,
Does any part of that book give good coverage to doing the eccentric insert method of conversion (vs. cutting off the old barrels and resleeving)?

Also, does it give coverage of hammer guns, or just more modern hammerless rifles/shotguns?

My interest in this is for blackpowder cartridges on an old 1860-1890's hammer english double. I'm just not sure if this somewhat expensive book is going to be of help to me.

Thanks for any help.

Brent

A hammer gun is no differetn than a hammerless as far as making a rifle goes. Same things apply to each type. No, it does not deal with inserts or anything like that. It only deals with actually making a DR.

$50 is a drop in the bucket when working on a DR.