I am considering rebarreling my 8mm Mauser to 458 Socom. So far removing the barrel is kicking my butt.

I put the barrel in a barrel vise with an aluminum bushing then used a large brass wrench to turn the action. I think I put at least 150 ft-lbs of torque on the wrench, but it did not budge. Heating the action to over 200 F did not help either, the barrel just slipped in the vice. Any suggestions? Thanks.

I do not mean this to be insulting, so please do not take it as such.........

You DID remember to open or remove the bolt before attempting to unscrew the barrel?

Next question is, "Is it an original barrel?"

If it is a rebarrel at some point by an American gunsmith, the custom here used to be to put about .003" of "crush" on both the barrel shoulder at the front of the action and at the end of the barrel where it meets the "C" in the action. THAT can really lock them up, espcially if some thread rust ensues over the years...

No offense taken. I did take out the bolt. I think it is an original barrel, the number on the barrel is the same as on the action. Any other suggestions? Thanks.

Ranb

You have already tried the application of heat, which would have been my next suggestion.

I suppose what I should ask next is "How did you apply the unscrewing force?" It is easier to get those barrels to come loose if you hit the wrench handle briskly with a dead-blow hammer, as far out on the handle as possible (the farther out, the more leverage).

Just applying an even, gradual force, even with an extension over the handle of the wrench for more leverage, does not seem to always work as well as the sudden snap of a hammer blow.

The major precaution I would give you is that Mauser action rails are thin, and easily twisted out of true alignment compared to some other bolt action rifles. So, whatever else you do, make a special effort to keep the wrench all the way forward where all the turning force is applied to the front receiver ring and none to the side rails.

I tried hitting the wrench with a hammer. I kept the wrench as close as possible to the barrel vise to avoid twisting problems. I think the only other thing I can do is try heating it hotter and trying again.

Ranb

If that does not work, you may end up having to ask yourself "Am I willing to throw away the remains of the barrel that is in there now, after I get it out?"

If so, there are some other steps you can take as last resorts, but I would suggest trying the heat again first, though not much hotter than you have already gotten it.

I've got an action wrench that bolts on with a V-block on top. You can powder the barrel, vise and bushings with rosin to make it stick. Then I WHACK the wrench with a 3# hammer. works every time. My barrel vise has thrust bearings so I can almost crush the barrel when tightening it. My action wrench is very tight all around and no energy is lost on a loose connection. Doesn't mark up the receiver either. Don't think I'd try this with a crescent wrench.

I put 10 drops of Kroil in the crack of the threads, load it up with 450 foot pounds, and then hit it with a 20 pound sledge hammer at the same time.

That makes it come apart.
Then I clean the rust out the threads, put grease on the threads, and then it only takes 75 foot pounds to get it on and off to the same reference point.

What does it all mean?
After 50 years, that barrel is rusted on.

I really don't care about salvaging the milsurp barrel.....if it's stuck so tight I can't get it off with my barrel vice then I use a pipe wrench on the barrel. It leaves very deep marks in the barrel but....as I said....I don't want the milsurp barrel.

I've had to fold a piece of sand paper in half and then wrap around the barrel before putting in barrel vice jaws usually keeps it from slipping.

When one is as stuck as you are talking about, I spray it with PB penetrating oil 2-3 times a day for several days. I use a lot of rosin on my barrel blocks, a long pipe over my action wrench, and a 4 pound maul for motivation.

If this does not work, then I cut the barrel right at the front of the action ring with a parting tool. I know, I know Mausers barrels "do not" touch the front of the reciever ring. My experience has shown that a lot of them do and relieveing this little bit may help.

Also, most action wrenches put a compression force on the front ring. THis can actually make it harder to remove the barrel, as the wrench is "pinching" the front ring tighter on the male barrel threads. It is a balance between tight enough for the wrench not to slip, but loose enough so it does not pinch the threads and make barrel removal much harder.

Some Mauser barrels just won't come off without damaging the action

Dear Ranb40:

All the above advice is excellent.

If you do not want to save the military barrel, and I don't, then here is what I have had success with in removing Mauser barrels.

First, I load up the barrel threads from inside the receiver at the C-ring with brake cleaner. Try to find the old stuff with Acetone as the active ingredient, it works better than the newer TCE. Wait about 20 minutes, and then warm the barrel up again, like you did. It tends to melt the hardened grease on the threads in my experience.

Second, torque up a first class action wrench on the receiver, snug up against the recoil lug with about 30-35 foot pounds on the bolts. I use a piece of aluminum siding about 1"x2" on the top of the receiver so the wrench doesn't mar the receiver. The aluminum also gives it a crush fit, and a bit of grab.

Third, place the action with the wrench on some old carpet on the floor with the action handle pointing towards you.

Fourth, get an 18" or bigger pipe wrench and with the action wrench handle on the floor mount the pipe wrench with the handle about 6-8" inches above the floor (about 30-45 degrees of arc from the floor), and make it very tight on the 0.980" shank of the barrel about 1/2" in front of the receiver.

Fifth, stamp on the pipe wrench handle with your right foot.

I'm about 205 lbs., and every barrel has come off on the first try. If you have a 250-300 lb. athletic friend, its worth the price in beer for him to do this part for you.

I used to cut the barrel off about 3" in front of the receiver, place it vertically in a pipe vise, and use a 6 foot cheater pipe on the action wrench. That also worked. My guess is the break away torque is somewhere around 350-400 lbs., based upon my experience with automobiles, and my father in law's experience running the Penske diesel shop in Reading, Pennsylvania. It was his pipe vise and cheater pipe we used.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

when I can't get a barrel off on my rifle, i take it over to a friend's shop, who has this
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.as...34&title=BARREL+VISE

and they pretty much always come off...


i have NOT tried the following, just my thoughts

i have thought that you could, if you don't care about the barrel, rough it up to provide mechcanical grip, do a cerrosage/labmetal/epoxy pour that would fit into your barrel vise (mine is a wilson) to have a fantastic grip, and then turn the barrel off..

sounds like a receipe for action warpage...

...
i HAVE bumped the action to the right first, to unset the threads...

one often finds barrels are very difficult to remove if they are improperly set on both face and shoulder

Is the large brass wrench an action wrench? If not, you will likely destroy the action by trying to get it loose with it.

What you need is one of the upper V-block, lower flat area action wrenches that are cinched tightly around the front ring, to avoid torquing the rear of the action.

If the military barrel is scrap, use a large pipwrench placed about an inch from the front ring on the barrel shank.

TG

This is an action wrench and a barrel vise with Aluminum collets that I made. The vise is attached to the work bench.

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This is a portable model I made for another AR poster, for switching barrels at the range.

quote:

Originally posted by ranb40:
I am considering rebarreling my 8mm Mauser to 458 Socom.

I did the same thing last year.

It has been a hoot, although I've been unable to make it feed, I may enlist some professional help soon.

quote:

Originally posted by Marc_Stokeld:
If this does not work, then I cut the barrel right at the front of the action ring with a parting tool. I know, I know Mausers barrels "do not" touch the front of the reciever ring. My experience has shown that a lot of them do and relieveing this little bit may help.

Some Mauser barrels just won't come off without damaging the action

Hi, Marc, hope you are feeling better these days.....

Your experiences mentioned in this quote certainly are matched by mine. I have seen quite a number of factory installed Mauser barrels which were a crush fit to both the front of the receiver ring and the internal "C" or "H".

Because of the inherent problems with V-threads from an engineering standpoint, it was also tught by some of the gunsmithing schools here in the States that one of the positive features of the Mauser action IS the ability to do a minor crush fit of the barrel at both the action front and the internal "C".

It was taught that the two contact points acted to keep the barrel/receiver from very slightly pivoting on the threads each time the rifle was fired. That was said to act to keep barrel tightness consistent through the milliseconds of firing, and to improve accuracy over time and repeated firing.

Can't say I have any idea if that reasoning is really valid, but it IS what I was taught when I was learning to barrel rifles many years ago. And many others must have been taught the same, because almost all the gunsmiths I have known from the old days did a full contact fit at both places using Dykem to get 1/32nd to 1/16th turn or so of crush at each.

Then, thank God, over the years the whole concept of using crush anywhere finally started to fall by the wayside. And some actions now use different designs to get away from the whole concept of relying on V-threads to keep things aligned.

Because V-threads are also almost an invitation to rust, given enough time, I have also found like you that some Mauser 98 barrels are almost impossible to remove without damaging something.

Best wishes, bud...

Are you sure your action wrench isn't so tight that it is helping the action grip the threads? If the barrel is still slipping, try using powdered sugar between the barrel and the bushings. Grip the barrel as close to the action as possible.

The system 98 does not have an extractor slot in the barrel....so....leave the bolt in place! This will act as a mandrel to keep the action from upsetting if you really go bonkers with torque..I use "liquid wrench" as a pre treatment If you can warm up the receiver VERY fast..(you're trying to expand the ring slightly before heat gets thru to the barrel),,then ive a solid tug with about a four foot ft. extension. If your block fits right (use aluminum) there will be no slippage. My clamping bolts are 5/8" heat treated mill hold down bolts....I snapped 1/2" repeatedly before using the 5/8". Once..on a Browning A-bolt, the threads galled so badly (stainless) that I set up the action in the lathe then carefully bored out the barrel shank...when I got real close, the threads unwound like a spring!...this is the last resort!

Success at last. A combination of torque, heat and a hammer got the barrel off. The only damage is a light layer of aluminum on the barrel from the bushing and a bit of galling on the bushing from the barrel stamp. I did not bend the receiver. Thanks for the help guys.

Fireball 168, Can you tell me exactly the problems you are having with feeding your Mauser 458 socom? My Mauser is a Yugo M48. I will have to open up the inside of the magazine area by about 0.050 inches to allow the cartridge to get out of the magazine. I think single loading into the chamber wil not be possible as the rim needs to slide up between the bolt face and extractor. I have enough room between the mag follower and the feed ramp to install a small piece of metal that might help raise the nose of the cartridge.

Ranb

Congrats but good thing you didn't listen to Mr Wiebe. The M48 does have an extractor slot and you would have torn the extractor claw right off provided you didn't strip the bolt beforehand.

quote:

Originally posted by ranb40:
Fireball 168, Can you tell me exactly the problems you are having with feeding your Mauser 458 socom?

My Mauser is a Yugo M48. I will have to open up the inside of the magazine area by about 0.050 inches to allow the cartridge to get out of the magazine.

I think single loading into the chamber wil not be possible as the rim needs to slide up between the bolt face and extractor.
Ranb

I've tried twice, once on a Daly-Zavasta commercial action, and most recently on a 98/22.

Single loading isn't a problem, at all, after beveling the extractor a tiny bit.

The cartridge wants to nose dive and jam into the front of the magazine. I've tried making a spacer/loading ramp at the front out of Delrin, tried combining that with a spacer at the rear of the magazine box, tried the Gibbs detachable magazines(which almost worked, but where they placed the shoulder crimp in the metal is just totally wrong, both short and long action magazines).

Supposedly they will feed fairly easily from Savage short actions with the right magazine box, and I've seen a Mini-14 magazine conversion kit for the Remington 700 that has possibility as well.

Its amazing what that little cartridge can do when its loaded up past the pressure limit it was designed to run in(AR-15).

quote:

Is the large brass wrench an action wrench? If not, you will likely destroy the action by trying to get it loose with it.

What you need is one of the upper V-block, lower flat area action wrenches that are cinched tightly around the front ring, to avoid torquing the rear of the action.

If the military barrel is scrap, use a large pipwrench placed about an inch from the front ring on the barrel shank.

AMEN! I have had only two Mausers that required extraordinary lengths to remove the barrel. Both of these finally succumbed to placing my action wrench in a heavy vise (Receiver in wrench) and putting on a 36" pipe wrench, a 36" "chester Bar" on the barrel and jumping on the cheater to finally break the barrel lose. All other Mausers came off at the worst, by taking a parting cut a few 1000ths in front of the ring. Some required nothing more than the usual effort.

quote:

Originally posted by fireball168:
Its amazing what that little cartridge can do when its loaded up past the pressure limit it was designed to run in(AR-15).

What bullets are you using? I use the remington 405 grain FN in my suppressed ar-15, this requires that I remove weights from the recoil buffer. I tried the lyman 535 grain RN, but the ogive is about .005 to wide to chamber reliably. All my loads are subsonic so far.

Ranb

I've run just about everything I've got through it, 250's up to 490g cast.

Rem 721...seems to me that the M48 was a johnny come laely in the thread...but leaving the bolt in place is still a good idea...just either lift the handle sufficiently to clear the extractor or simply remove the extractor...just trying to same someone the grief of a slightly crushed receiver!

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:
Rem 721...seems to me that the M48 was a johnny come laely in the thread...but leaving the bolt in place is still a good idea...just either lift the handle sufficiently to clear the extractor or simply remove the extractor...just trying to same someone the grief of a slightly crushed receiver!

I have built a number of action wrenches, but never crushed the receiver. I do not tighten them like I tighten the barrel vise.

A break through came for me when I made one from partially from round stock and had to cut relief.

It worked so much better than my previous action wrench builds becuase it did not mar the bluing and the tightening bolts did not bind. I became apparent to me then that the plane of the tightening bolts must contain both the flat of the receiver bottom AND the large ring of the receiver.

My previous wrenches had the rear of the large ring in front of plane and so the V block on top cantilevered from the plane of the tightening bolts out to the large ring. When the bolts were tightened, a force was then put on the threaded sides of the bolts as they touch the holes in the V block and the movement when tightening in produced a lateral movement that could mar the bluing on the top of the large ring.

When I got the large ring in the same plane as the large ring, then is was all in line compression. When a torque is applied to take the rusty barrel off, some slippage is possible rotating in the plane of the tightening bolts, but this is so small it does not leave a mark.





This picture show how I USED to make action wrenches, on the bottom, vs how I make them now, on top.

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This is a portable model I made for another AR poster, for switching barrels at the range.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, and I hear both he really loves it and also really appreciate you doing so for him!

Yer welcome Seafire,

This is the way I used to make action wrenches, ala 1965 Macfarland's gunsmithing book:



Macfarland probably did not have a mill.
He cut sight dovetails in barrels with a hacksaw
Kind of like a barefoot doctor.

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
He cut sight dovetails in barrels with a hacksaw

Who hasn't done that?

Holy crap that barrel vise from Brownells has really gone up in price. I dont remember paying over $100 when I bought mine.

Ive always had good luck with PB Blaster and a little time. Then a good wrench, pipe on the wrench.