Ok, logically I know the answer to this question. But just to be sure I'll go ahead and ask.

On a Mauser, to be rebarreld and a full custom job built (a 1908 Brazilian in this case),is there ANY benefit to having the action and bolt with matching serial numbers?

Allen

Sure it`d be nice to have a fully matching action. But, if the job is done right the bolt will be lapped in along with the rest of the action work and the handle replaced so there go the numbers???? Seems like a shame to sporterize a fully matching rifle if you have one. I think I would opt out for an "action only" and save the matching ones for the vault.
Aloha, Mark

doesn't matter, but it sure is cool

Dear Mr. Bosely:

In my very limited experience, having built two rifles, one, a 1908 Brazilian with matching serial numbers, and the other, a Brno without matching numbers, the Brazilian was definitely a bit smoother in operation even after smoothing out the lug ways.

But, since I have come full circle, and now use the original triggers, there is no comparison for sear engagement on a matching numbered cocking piece and military trigger. I have just finished stoning two unmatched triggers, one for a 98k and one for a 1924 Yugo. Not bad, but not as good as the factory smiths did it in Berlin and Oberndorf.

The more I mess with 1898 Mausers, the more I see the fine hand of some of the best craftsmen in Germany at the time. The matching numbered ones appear to be hand timed and finished. Nothing like it from that era to my knowledge.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

I think jeffesso hit it. It's the "Cool"factor.

From what I've gathered, matching bolt & receiver #s don't make any PRACTICAL differences
but on a special gun it seems to matter to me.

It's not really logical I guess. But for some reason the matching #s seems much more appealing.

I guess I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything on using non matching bolt & recover.

I have a line on a 1908 that has matching bolt and receiver #s but some of the rest of the parts don't match.So I wouldn't be taking apart a pristine all matching gun.

I will cost a couple of hundred bucks more for the gun with matching #s. But I think the cool factor is just to high to ignore.

I think it's fascinating that the heart of my gun was paired up 90+ years ago by an old world craftsman and is still together after all this time.

Allen

AllenBosely.
I love rifles. Most of them anyway. Can't quite fathom the fasination with the 98 though.

Do you ever consider your old world craftsman was working on a factory military rifle designed to shoot/kill someone? Presumably someone more on "our" side than theirs.

Did these old world craftsman actually do "custom" work on a military factory rifle?
Why can't a modern new world craftsman smooth up these clunkers just as well?

If Bohica is correct about loosing the serial No. anyway, and if I was a new world craftsman and worked it all over, I'd put the rifle's number on the "new" bolt wouldn't I??

From what I've seen of mil actions, I'll take a commercial action anyday. Hell, even a PF.

See what I'm like before my morning coffee?

The matching serial number on a bolt merely indicates that the bolt has the proper headspace and lug contact for that particular barreled action, and is safe to use.

On a custom rifle, it is perfectly acceptable (and sensible) to number your new bolt to the action, for the same reasons. However, you should not use a font or pattern that resembles the original style, so that it is clear that there was no attempt at forgery, fraud, etc.

JAL,
Yes the thought of what it was originally designed for did/has crossed my mind.

I'm not fascinated with them because they were designed to ultimately kill some one.

They represent a time in history, somewhat like a time capsule.My wife and I are some what into vintage
things. A lot of the vintage items have a different feel, and we appreciate that.

The better built military Mausers have fantastic machine work even though it was built in a factory, the person/s doing the work were skilled and took pride in their work and it shows.

Man hours were all the had, not high tech equipment and they were willing to put in the time it took to do it correct. Parts and pieces were machined in place not just always pined or other wise attached.

It's just my opinion but I feel they were proud of the fact that they had tools that even could do some of the things that were possible at that time that were not possible not that long before then.

The fascination with the M98 for me is it is designed to work under less than ideal environmental conditions and with the operator under stress and has proven it's ability to do so over 90+ years.

There are better actions than a M98 for some things such as extreme accuracy or cheaper to manufacture.
But for what I want to use MY guns for ME there isn't a better action, different but not better. A M98 has better odds of working under poor conditions, be it environmental ie. dust, mud, debris in or on gun, faulty ammo (it has a good gas venting system), extracting dirty or damaged ammo or operator stress as in double stroking, bolt binding ect..

When people talk about these clunker Mausers, there is a vast range of quality in them. There are M98s built under questionable conditions by people with questionable skill in many different countries.

Compare a DWM or Oberndorf built Mauser to some of the ones built in some of the various countries under license. Even compare the ones built under license to an average factory built guns of today.

I'm not slamming the current factory built guns. They have to sell at a price point or not sell. If today's factory rifles were machined the same as an old Mauser they wouldn't sell for the price they do today.

The military rifle actions I am particularly impressed with are the 1909 Argentine and the 1908 Brazilian.

When people talk about the work and expense to smooth up these old clunkers.On the good ones it not that they are so rough it basically two things,

1. Most of us want special things on them they didn't originally have, such as hunting sights, scopes & bases,easy to open floor plates, wing safeties, differently shaped bolt handles, hunting triggers, removing features not needed or wanted, like the charger hump. The lack of these things are not a design fault. They weren't needed for it's original use. To me it's proof of good design and construction that it makes a platform to grow into such a different use but still keep the reliability it originally had.

2. The fact that "we" are pushing the performance envelope so far past what it was designed for. Such as cutting the action open to fit cartridges in it such as, well my 404 Jeffery or a .375H&H or a .458 Lott.and cartridges that produce higher chamber pressure and greater backthrust and such. And it takes it so well.

Then for me there's also the British gun trade from about 1905 or 1910 and up to the late 40s and the use of the Mauser as a basis for so many of their guns.Consequently the History and Nostalgia from that is important to us.

As far as the serial #s matching, it goes back to the Nostalgia thing using the basic parts that it started with. The Action and Bolt are kind of the heart of the gun.

If I use one with out matching #s I will put the serial # on the bolt for identification purposes if no other.
Of course mine will get a different bolt handle so will get the serial # put onto it.

Well you did ask.

Allen

I recall a customer coming in with a Ruger bolt to be rebarreled and seen a barreled mauser already laying on the table nearly finished. I remember him telling me he wouldnt own a mauser for nothing...I didnt get asked why i was grinning from ear to ear.
My take on the bolt is as yours, doesnt have to be matching on a full blown custom, but it sure is nicer when it is.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenBosely:
JAL,
Well you did ask.

Allen

Good onya Allen, nicely said. Damned if I don't nearly agree. But I have seen some nice custom Rugers here on AR.

P.s. I saw a Broomhandle mauser, no machine marks inside, lovely piece of work. Handled well, never failed to work.
But you couldn't hit anything much. Wasn't me, as the U.S. .45 mil auto, which rattled, shot very well at 75 yards even.

JAL,

As you say about nice custom Rugers. I find it truly amazing the quality of work and level of artistic skill that displayed on custom rifles of different makes by some of the gunsmiths.

I prefer the look or styling of the Winchesters
over the Rugers usually. But I've seen pics of Rugers with the action profiled and thought the were very attractive.

I guess it's like Blondes, Brunettes and Red Heads. Different things trip each of our triggers.

I have just recently, in the last three years or so discovered or started to become fascinated be the Mausers. So maybe there's hope for you yet!

Of course I'm very glad that not Everyone has the hots for Mausers. If they did they would all get bought up and the price would go crazy and then I couldn't afford one!

IIRC reading about the Broomhandle Mauser. It was as you noticed, a real nice pistol but not so hot in the accuracy dept. No personal experience with one though.

How do you like my Signature line?
I have been waiting to come up with something that fit me.
I thought that one worked for me.

Allen

quote:

Originally posted by AllenBosely:
How do you like my Signature line?
I have been waiting to come up with something that fit me.
I thought that one worked for me.

Allen

Yeah, not bad.

I think of Mausers as like a good wife. . . If you like her it's easy to overlook the shortcommings.

quote:

Originally posted by JAL:

quote:

Originally posted by AllenBosely:
How do you like my Signature line?
I have been waiting to come up with something that fit me.
I thought that one worked for me.

Allen

Yeah, not bad.

I think of Mausers as like a good wife. . . If you like her it's easy to overlook the shortcommings.

Mausers are better than a wife as they have no short commings.

Yes it is a mauser thing.

Rad

Just for starters, if you double shuffle your last round during a tight spot, the "system" chucks it into the scrub.

Did I have to get my M70 modified? Noooo.
Did I have to get it heat treated? Noooo.
Did it need a new trigger system.? Noooo.
Did it need work on to get to feed? Noooo.
Does it feed like grease under your shoe? Yep.