Most bolt action rifles -- '98 Mausers and '98 Mauser copies, Winchester 70, Remington 700, Ruger 77, Weatherby, Howa, Savage, and many others -- cock on opening. But a few cock on closing. I've never shot or dealt with one that cocks on closing -- Is the Enfield one of those? If so, when the Enfield is re-worked as the basis for a sporter rifle, is it converted to cock on opening?
For those of you who've used and shot both kinds of bolt action rifles -- cock on opening and cock on closing -- do you find that it makes any difference, and do you have a preference?
Posts: 5883 | Location: People's Republic of Maryland | Registered: 11 March 2001
"Teh only cok on closing is th eSwedish mauser 96 and m-38 and m-41" You are uaually right . There are more mausers that cock on closing however.Too much Aquavit last night?roger
Posts: 10226 | Location: Temple City CA | Registered: 29 April 2003
Which Mauser 98's do you have that cock on closing? The cock-on-closing Mausers I am familiar with are the M94 & M96, but every M98 Mauser I have ever seen had a cock-on-opening action IIRC.
Which is handier depends on which you grew up with. There's little doubt a cock on closing action can be just as fast as a cock-on-opening model, if you are used to using it. There may also be some slight extraction advantage, so far as hand effort comes into play.
AC
Posts: 9685 | Location: Cave Creek 85331, USA | Registered: 17 August 2001
Although my enfields have been converted I hear that the cock on closing can be faster and easier as you are applying the force in your forward and downward stroke, better leverage. But this is only what i have heard since mine have the kits installed.
Re
Posts: 4740 | Location: Fresno, CA | Registered: 21 March 2003
In my original question, I was thinking of 1917 Enfields, such as the one used by D'Arcy Echols and Tom Burgess as the basis of the exquisitely beautiful sporter shown here in an earlier thread. I was not thinking of conversions based on the Lee-Enfield action.
Posts: 5883 | Location: People's Republic of Maryland | Registered: 11 March 2001
In a proper "cock on opening" coversion for the P14/17 the bolt body is welded up and the cocking cam recut. My P14 has 5/16" of striker travel and works well. I have also done conversions on Lee Enfields but you have to want it pretty bad! Regards, Bill.
There is one safety issue that tried to add some scars to my face concerning a cock on closing Mauser. Since you have to dry fire to release the firing spring pressure (as too many people like to do, unnecesarily I believe) eventually in my rifles case the firing pin hammered its way out to protrude beyond the bolt face slightly when the bolt was open. Add to that the spring back when the bolt is opened unfired and a live round in the chamber, and I had a 'malfunction' in my face with a .308 round.
Gotta watch those old Mausers for stuff like that.
Cock on open controls/secures the firing pin better.....IMHO.
Posts: 1780 | Location: South Texas, U. S. A. | Registered: 22 January 2004
I've got one cock on closing, an 1891 Mauser. To be honest I find it more dificult, probably because I don't practice with it enough. I think with more practice I would get used to it.
Posts: 1242 | Location: Houston, TX, USA | Registered: 04 April 2002
My first centerfire was a 1917 Enfield 30 years ago, so I was used to the cock on closing. It still seems easier to me, and I don't shoot that rifle at all anymore.
Because it doesn't work like that on the old cock on close Mausers. Hold the trigger down on this small ring Mauser and the bolt will not close at all.
Personally, I don't bother taking the tension off of a firing pin spring, but many do, and since the rifle in question had about 100 years of other people using it before it came into my hands, the damage was done long ago.
Posts: 1780 | Location: South Texas, U. S. A. | Registered: 22 January 2004
VFR & CDH Interesting, The cocking piece is laying aganst the end of the bolt until it contacts the trigger's sear lump (pardon me if I get the terms incorrect) as the bolt is run forward, than is held by the sear until the trigger is pulled (normal firing operation). So pulling the trigger/lowering the sear, as the cocking piece goes by the sear, won't allow you to close the bolt on your Mausers?
Posts: 2124 | Location: Whittemore, MI, USA | Registered: 07 March 2002
To answer your original question, there IS a conversion for the Pattern 14 and Model 1917 Enfields. Sarco and Gunparts used to carry them. They were about $15 plus shipping. It included a new cocking piece, firing pin, and shroud. Screw the old assy. out and screw the new one in.... about 2 min. worth of work. Of the two that I have installed, both worked flawlessly and had really nice smooth trigger pulls. The travel was loooong tho. They worked so well I did not install a Timney. As far as I know, I have never seen or read about a cock on opening conversion for the Lee Enfields,i.e. The No.1 and the No.4 & 5.
As far as preference, you get used to what your shooting. Did not find a whole lot of difference, bit that's just me!
Posts: 18 | Location: South east michigan | Registered: 16 February 2003
IIRC, the bolt would not close completely with the trigger pulled. I have long since parted company with the rifle (never could get over the flash/bang in my face from the misfire) so I can't check it out. Given the sorry state I received the rifle in, it is possible that it was defective in other ways too, I just never worked with that little issue. Several gunsmiths I took it to in the year I tried to get it working well just nodded like it is a common feature when I mentioned it.
Posts: 1780 | Location: South Texas, U. S. A. | Registered: 22 January 2004
Open bolt all the way to the rear, depress follower, push bolt forward until resistance, pull trigger, push bolt forward, release trigger, push bolt down.
Pulled trigger just to check, but it was not cocked.
I have guns that are both cock on open and cock on close, and I hunt with them all. It is a matter of practice. Spend enough time with the weapons and things will go well. I have a m-38, m-96, m-93 m-95, and a husky 9.3x57 built on a m-94 action. All cock on close. I also have a few M-44's, A few 98's, and a Remington 700. All cock on open. I have no problem switching back and forth it has never been an issue with me. As far as converting one of my COC rifles over to COO I have never seen the need to spend the money on something that is not broke. The more you use the rifle the easier it is to switch back and forth from rifle to rifle. It's all the same motion. LLB
Posts: 93 | Location: Louisiana | Registered: 12 November 2003
not close.
roger