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One of Us |
Don't know where else to post this other than here in the gunsmithing, especially since there some of us that were waiting on Dakota actions for custom guns. It does not look like we are going to get them. I figured someone else would have mentioned this. I got paper work last week stating that they, Dakota Arms, had now gone into chapter 7 bankruptcy. I received my recent copy of the Charlie Kokesh BRAG RAG. In it he makes a great many guarantees! Hard to image that sort of impudence. He owes just about everybody he has done business with money. He has bankrupted other businesses that threw their hat in with him. Way to go Charlie, your stain is growing! I love my Avatar Too Fellas. | ||
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One of Us |
I would imagine this may sound the death knell for poor old Dakota. I actually spoke with someone there three weeks agon and things sounded great. They may have a good action, but I for one would not give them any of my money. | |||
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one of us |
Gun toter, Where did you get this information. What type of "paper work" did you receive and from whom? I'm asking because I can't find any information regarding a new bankruptcy filing. They just emerged from bankruptcy and started taking new deposits. It's hard for me to fathom that they would now go straight into a Chapter 7 liquidation. Here's a letter from Kokesh posted to their website in the last couple of weeks:
______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
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One of Us |
Forrest, The paper work is official notification from the courts of the state of Minn. where the bankruptcy papers were filed. If there is any truth to what he stated in that statement it is that there is a "new Dakota" meaning that the old Dakota and all its debts will be drowned in bankruptcy while the "new Dakota" skates on with the "old Dakotas" orders and assets. I love my Avatar Too Fellas. | |||
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one of us |
What you may have is a notice of either a Liquidated Chapter 11 or a Chapter 7 liquidation of the old company after Dakota Holding LLC bought certain assets. Kokesh probably filed a Stalking Horse bid under section 363 which ususally requires a minimum 1/3 of the offer in escrow. Any other bidders then need to put a similar amount in escrow (minimum usually $100,000) with the Debtor's bankruptcy attorneys for the right to bid against the Stalking Horse. Since the Stalking Horse bid is usually a high start, most bidders looking fo a fire sale go away. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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One of Us |
This is unfortunately not an uncommon way to keep doing business in the US. The "old" company is still a legal entity, and is going under. Many suppliers and investors will lose large sums. The new company is doing business without the obligations and debt. Same people, same address, same name, same products, but free from all those promises and bills from poor business practices. To make it worse, all this has been approved by the court system. It does allow companies to keep manufacturing products, maybe they will make better decisions about what they can sell at a profit in future markets. Maybe we will someday hear that there were high priced exec types that left with large bonuses. Roger | |||
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One of Us |
Just today in the mail I received the new Spring 2007 Newsletter from Dakota. I doubt they would be sending it out if they weren't in business. The same letter Forrest mentioned was on the website is in the newsletter. Nice photo of a Real Nice Dakota 10 on the front cover. | |||
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Moderator |
Just got off the phone with dakota. It is just as tiggertate says They have emerged from Chapter 11, and are certainly fully in business. The former corporation is what is going in chapter 7, as tigger says. In other words, it's just erasing an unused coporate shell. jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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One of Us |
guess that means no one is going to get the money owed them from the "unused corporate shell" aka the old Dakota Arms. I love my Avatar Too Fellas. | |||
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Moderator |
GT, the judge that set their chapter 11 set the payback schedule. Emerging from chapter 11 means you have, if not completed, at least met the judge's (and the laws) requirements to get that. banruptcy means "we can't pay, at least at the schedule they are demanding" or "protection from creditors" so it should be no surprise that some don't get paid back in full. though, specifically, that doesn't really have anything to do with "dakota" being in chapter 7. Thats a part and parcel process for the proceedings opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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One of Us |
That's the way I read what's going on. If the old Dakota owed you money before the CH 11 was filed, you are NOT going to get any back....... "Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen." | |||
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one of us |
The creditors will get whatever the proceeds of the sale of the assets brought, plus whatever cash was on hand at the time of the final ruling in case. In many cases, the new company needs the services and products of the creditors that were originally hurt and a deal is struck after-the-fact to make them whole enough want to continue doing buisiness with the new company. As bad as it sounds, bankruptcy does provide a win-win sometimes. The important thing for any vendor is to not let yourself become dependent for living on one customer and never let your customer get too deep into your wallet. Most vendors get afraid to piss off a client and won't cut them off fast enough to prevent getting hurt. Otherwise, you're not a very good business person, either. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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one of us |
I let this happen to me years ago when I owned my own business. I let one client become a dominent part of my business and they knew it. I let it go on too long and more or less became an employee of the other company with a payroll of my own to meet. I finally resolved the problem. Nobody was happy with the outcome. Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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one of us |
We lost some to Dak and to be honest they would have to pay up front to deal with us again, I am sure most creditors would feel the same. We too have recieved the chapter 7 court papers although I don't know exactly what all it means. I would be very surprised if it really means anything to us at this point. I am sure there are others that have been screwed over much better than we were. I am also sure there are companies that no longer exist because of this! | |||
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