This is a rant, it's about bad customer service and I think it's a valid one. Please read on.
I had some troubles with a HS Precision HRT rifle last year.
If you run some searches to my user name you'll find some of the post about it.

http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat...earch=true#Post45144

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tp...88/r/5871088#5871088

This is a link relating to another problem I had with HS and the same rifle:
http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat...earch=true#Post45141

I got the rifle here in Italy from a local dealer through the national importer Bignami, I'll add that it cost me 2,800Euro, approx $3,470US after import tax and shiping.
Initally I was concerned with the bedding. The alluminium blocks had spillage of the stock material and it really was messy.
Nonetheless, the rifle came with a test target of .178MOA I got it to shoot to .3MOA with my handloads so I let it go.
Apparently the test target was shot with Federal Gold Medal Match ammo, which I only got to trying later on when it was ruined.

Back in August or September 2004 the groups started opening up and I started to get frustrated. I tried everything I could, a mechanical shooting rest that blocks the rifle, had a ex army sniper try it, tried shooting my other rifles to see if it wasn't my shooting. Nothing, th rifle was shooting around 3 inches @ 100.
I got some Federal Gold Medal Match ammo, 67Euro later and still no joy.
I checked the scope, mounts, inspected the bore, everything looked ok. I changed the scope and found it still shot uncontrollably.

It wasn't until I picked the rifle up off the bench that I felt the barrel turn in my hand that the penny dropped.
The barrel had come loose. I had never done anything that could have loosened, nor would I have any reason to, nor do I possess (or have access to) a barrel vice or any such equipment.

I contacted HS and expressed my concern, they were happy enough to carry out whatever work need to be done to fix it so I went on happy with the knowledge that I could get it fixed. In the mean time I tried tightening it by hand, together with a freind to see if it would fix it. The two of us twisted the barrel and action holding it rith rags as tight as we could and tried it. Still the same.

I called HS and told them I was going to send it in for repair as well as giving some very specific instructions and requests.
I made it absoluately clear that I would not be satisfied by any means of repair other than those of the HS Precision factory in the US.
I reitterated that I did NOT want the rifle to be handled by the Bignami gunsmiths because I do not have suffecient faith in them.
I also did not want Bignami to deal with the rifle because I feared it would be a year before I got the rifle back. Sending it back and forth would take the same amount of time but I figured at least I was going to get the most competent people to deal with it.
This is based on past experiences.
I also wasn't happy because I had a rifle that was supposedly capable of shooting .178 groups and I had ascertained that it could shoot at least .3 so I would have been slightly pissed to get a new rifle out of the deal and get one that only "just" made their .5MOA garantee.
That might sound a bit nitt picky, but after you shell out that much money for a rifle, I think it's reasonable.

I spoke with a man named Todd from HS Precision, (not the first time; see bedding link) who has handled the case. He was appolagetic enough said he would speak to Manfred and Andy, their correspondants from Bignami, and instruct them to send the rifle to him rather than deal with it in house.
He also rightly expressed concern about the incedent and wanted to get a chance to inspect the rifle himself.
Assured that the matter would be handled properly and also content that after I mentioned the trigger was very bad on the rifle, Todd said they would slip in one of their new triggers which are said to have been improved. Bonus.

I took the rifle to the local dealer I got it from, who, among other things, being a total wanker started a big argument because I told him exactly why I didn't want Bignami to touch it and he, being a gunsmith himself took offence it to all, going so far as to threaten not to send the rifle at all and accusing me of having unscrewd it myself... (why?)

After some time, I tried e-mailing Todd several times and got no response, it wasn't until I called that he told me that the e-mail address on their website does not work.
He still hadn't heard anything from Bignami, and I coudln't get in touch with Bignami. They do not deal with mere mortals, so I had to sit tight.

Time passed and I spoke with Todd at HS again about it, same response. Bignami hadn't mentioned the rifle.

At this point I'm wondering why I didn't ask him nicely to CALL Bignami and find out about it...

Well two weeks ago I heard from the local dealer that the rifle has arrived, repaired. He doesn't know who fixed it or what they did, it's still sealed but he does not think it went to the US.

I call HS again and Todd tells me he heard nothing of it. The rifle never made it to HS Precision, nor did Bignami mention it.

So...I have made maybe 5 phone calls to Todd at HS regarding this matter, sent numerous e-mail that never were answered or recieved, been fobbed off by Bignami because they don't deal with private persons, only dealers, argued with the local dealer and still didn't get the work I had requested.
My request was not only absolutely clear, but aslo I was told that it would be granted by Todd from HS, all along.

Again he was appolagetic enough but still hasn't been able to offer any kind of solution.

I think this is absolutely pathetic, on the part of HS Precision I hadn't expected it, I had put blind faith into the famed American customer service and diligence.

The rifle is still with the dealer, I have been out of town but tomorrow I'll go pick it up.
I have conceeded that if it still shoots .3 groups with the same ammo I'll keep it, because, as it has become clear, there is little hope of getting anything done about it.
Todd agreed that if the rifle should not shoot as it did before or if the repairs are not satisfactory then he would have Bignami send it to him and another look.
What is that worth to me now?

I do not have much faith that the rifle will be the same as before, I came up with and heard all manner of theories of what shooting with a (very)loose barrel(untill I realized it) could have done to the headspaceing, barrel/reciever threads, throat, chamber...I just don't know, but I know it didn't do it any good.
Bignami didn't ask HS to send for a new barrel, so at a guess they probably just screwed it back on to spec torque. Todd believes they are capable of fixing the headspace(if it is a headspace issue) and said he is optimistic that it will proove to be a good repair job.

If the rifle does not shoot as it used to I would like to send it back and have HS reimburse me the full amount I paid for the rifle, but I don't know how that will go over, nor do I have any means of enforcing my wishes from here should it come to that.

I feel that people should know about this, it I hope it casts the desired amount of bad light on HS Precision because I have only them to hold responsable, the barrel most likely came unscrewed due to an assembly error, and they promised to take it in for repair/replacement or whatever was in order.

What should I do? And if and when I discover that the rifle is not up to scratch and opt to return it to the factory for a full refund, do I have any legal ground to stand in on the US? Is there a cumsumer affairs agency who could take care of such a matter on behalf of a foreigner?

A wisw man once told me the difference between education and experience. Education is what you get when you read the fine print in a contract or a warranty...and Experience is what you get when you don’t!

If it were me, I would bypass both of these companies and find a good local gunsmith to take the rifle to. If you have an ex Army sniper friend he may be able to recommend someone.

For long term consistency I would also recommend skim bedding the aluminum bedding block.

First, let me tell you that I fully understand your frustration. Bignami, perhaps, overstepped their authority on executing the repair, provided that they knew of it.

1: your local gunsmith/dealer is a jerk. The question was NOT about his skill or product, this is obviously a manf issue

2: your local gunsmith is a jerk. bet he was more than willing to handle the sale, but balking at helping you with a repair means "never deal with him again"

3:if HS precision didn't get the rifle, you can only honestly blaime the initial failure, not the ensuing BS, on them

4: if Bignami is their (HS) european warrantly station, then them repairing it is within spec. Sorry.

5: .178 vs .300 is, well, fly specks, no offense meant. I had a rifle my wife could shoot in the One's EVERY time... i was pretty happy if I was in the sub quarter. In fact, my best group was about .210, and her's, well, was in the zeros. If you have any of the federal premium left, try it first when the rifle comes back

Most test groups MAKER's test groups are made from a rigid stand, not a shooter, btw.

So, here's what I see
1: if the rifle shoots as well as what it did when you got it, rejoice.
2: if it doesn't, you might can get it sent back to HSP for rework. If not, they will offer a discount on your next (not from ME) purchase.

sorry you are having a tough go at this, it sucks

jeffe

Express, I am getting dizzy jumping from one thread back in time and then ahead and back. Okay not as dizzy as the whole ordeal has made you, I am sure. You havent shot the rifle yet. Why don't you wait until you see if it is fixed. Tell us how it shoots and then talk about any remedies that are available or even necessary. Hope it works out for you.

IMHO HS Precision is a bargain in the US and an expensive remington with little/no customer support in the UK.

I was very tempted until I saw the UK price was more in pounds than it was dollars in the US. The UK too seemed to have no real warranty back up other than send it back to the US. Based on this I went elsewhere - looks like I made the right decision.

I seem to remember that you had to get a factory rifle due to Italian law. Have you tried the SSG police - very few complaints with those I think.

Go to http://www.benchrest.com/forums/ or http://www.6mmbr.citymaker.com/index.html and do a search on European target shooting and Benchrest.There are some truely excellent gunsmiths in your area and I'm sure you can find some one to help you. Like a friend once told me "your dealing with the wrong people" and he was right.Border Barrels in the U.K. would be another place to get some information and help.
Glenn

Express ,
As you and I know each other perhaps this may make you feel better .
Can't see how having the barrel come a little loose can really have any detrimental effect on the barrel itself until you reach the point where the case lets go and you have a case head separation .Escaping hot gases could do some damage at that point .
Screwing on a barrel ain't exactly rocket science . If you had a barrel vice and action wrench (as I once did) you could do it yourself . Even the actual torque applied isn't super critical in order to achieve correct headspace or good accuracy .
I had a Sako .220 Swift with 2 barrels and stocks and would change from sporter barrel to varmint barrel whenever I got the urge .
My action wrench was set up with quite a short handle (perhaps 250mm long) on the wrench so that I could not overtighten the barrel .
I used to tighten to firm but not dead tight so that the barrel could be easily removed without damaging the finish . Never came loose .
I'll guarantee you that 99% of gunsmiths do no different to what I did and have no torque wrench attached to their action wrenches (if they have one . Some roughies insert a tyre lever into the action) . The fact that your HS barrel came unscrewed is testament to the fact that they don't go to too much trouble either .
I had my action wrench and barrel vice built by a respected gunsmith and sold it to another respected gunsmith for his own use a few years later .
If you can tighten wheelnuts you can screw on a barrel .I wouldn't send one of my rifles to the other side of Australia to have it done , let alone another country .

I spoke to a certain Tom at HS Precision again after testing the rifle and he seemed very concerned and said he would speak to Bignami to find out what happened.
He spoke of getting the rifle back (unfortunately via Bignami) to their facility for evaluation of the problem and eventual resolution.

I have also finally been contacted via e-mail so I have an easier method of corresponding with them.
The email I got was from Todd, the man I dealt with from the beginning and I have written a lengthy response entailing what I feel and what I would like.
He also mentioned he was disturbed I didn’t call him about the rifle once it came back, which I did, and we spoke about it at length.

Here is the letter I wrote them;

Hi Todd,
I have recieved your e-mail. I would like to hear what Bignami has to say about the rifle never being sent to you.
I find it disturbing that you do not recall our phone conversation. I called you immediately after receiving the rifle back from Bignami and explained to you that it had not in fact come back to HS. I also explained that via the repair receipt that I was able to speak to the smith who carried out the reparation and that he had only screwed the barrel back in, without checking the threads, headspacing or testing the rifle. You suggested I try it out and hope that it might shoot well once again.
I called back after testing the rifle. Now that the rifle doesn’t hold your .5MOA guarantee, while you may remember that previous to the incident it shot much better than .5MOA with a test target of .178MOA and my best being .25MOA.
After speaking to Tom he suggested I try it once again with the Federal Gold Medal Match 168gn ammunition but since I have now dismantled the scope and mounts that may take more time again, time I am not willing to waste.

As you know well I am not happy at all about this situation.
I purchased this rifle around October of 2004.
I started shooting it in April of 2005 when I got the rings, bases and scope.
It was around August 2004 that the barrel came loose.
I got it back around April 2006.
I got 4 months of shooting out the rifle in two years.
This is not reasonable.

In this time I have made numerous phone calls, sent e-mails, (never answered because I was always told “that e-mail isn’t workingâ€) sent faxes (told the fax form the site doesn’t work) and for all this had absolutely no satisfaction.

Honestly I do not have much faith that Bignami will send the rifle back, if they are prepared to simply replace the rifle that would suffice in solving the problem for me, leaving the problem to them to deal with considering that they were the cause of all this aggro and the two companies (HS & Bignami) can work who went wrong.

Even in the event that they do agree to take the rifle in and send it to you, going on experience I know I will not see the rifle for many months or possiblly a year taking into account the export/import/export/import procedures as well as the Italian testing bank on it’s re-entry not to mention repair times and dead time in transit and processing.

From the very beginning, from when the rifle arrived to me I have kept a sort of diary on various internet forums. I have been very fair and objective giving praise where due and criticism where deserved.
I think you should have a look for yourself, there are many thousands of views and replies, around 5000 last time I counted. Not to mention that my signature line contains the links to each thread with the phrase “one very DISSATISFIED customer of HS PRECISION†this means that it appears in each and every post and reply I have ever posted, also prior to changing the signature line and in unrelated threads. This in turn means that the number of people who have seen this story unfold is many, many thousands.
Many of them are understandably negative toward HS and many people in the market for firearms stated they would not be buying form HS in light of what they have seen happen.
This record of all that has occurred can work to you favour.
It is also a good record of each of our phone conversations, which you may have forgotten over time. I supply you with the links so you can check it out of yourself and refresh your memory and see what people are saying about HS Precision quality control and customer service.
HS Precision or Bignami are in the position to make good on all of this and I will dutifully post all positive and negative results there.
Please read all of the links carefully, you owe it to me to at least take the time to read everything considering how much time and money I have wasted on this matter.

Good day to you,

Attilio Marra.

1st range session-
http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat...earch=true#Post45057


Range session –
http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat...earch=true#Post45192

1st quality control issue –
http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat...earch=true#Post45112

read the last post of the page - http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat...2&page=&fpart=3&vc=1

http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat...2&page=&fpart=4&vc=1

quality control thread -
http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat...page=&fpart=all&vc=1

Quality control revisited -
http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat...arch=true#Post120830

quality control rant -
http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat...page=&fpart=all&vc=1

quality control rant and history -
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=953101145#953101145

quality control rant and history -
http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat...226&page=0&fpart=all