How much is too much? Is there a rule of thumb as to how much disfiguration or pitting prevents a barrel from being safely used? I will have the opportunity to examine and perhaps purchase an old British rifle that obviousely has a pretty dark bore (.318 WR). What do I look for?
Unless I can use it I will not buy.

Boha

quote:

Originally posted by boha:
How much is too much? Is there a rule of thumb as to how much disfiguration or pitting prevents a barrel from being safely used? I will have the opportunity to examine and perhaps purchase an old British rifle that obviousely has a pretty dark bore (.318 WR). What do I look for?
Unless I can use it I will not buy.

Boha

How bad do you want it. "If you want it bad, you'll get it bad, the worse you want it, the worse you'll get it", is the general rule.

There is no real good way to advise someone about something without actually putting eye's on it. However there are a couple of things to remember, rough bores tend to place additional drag on the bullet which leads to higher pressures. So as a rule, the rougher the bore, the higher the pressures. On the flip side, a heavily erroded bore can lose it's grip on the bullet which can reduce pressures. Neither scenario is good for accuracy, so unless your intention is to occasionally hear it go bang, I wouldn't bother. Of course, if it's a rare piece that you just have to have for your collection, then that's a decision you'll have to make. Keep in mind also that pitting weakens steel. Heavy pitting in critical areas should serve as a deterrent. Go with your gut... Good luck.

Thanks. I am afraid to go with my gut, because it will tell me to buy. I must use reason...

Boha

The worst area for pitting/ pressure is the throat. If you use jacketed bullets sometimes a "bad" bore will shoot ok. First thing is to really clean it of metal fouling ect.
If you have led a clean life it may be accurate yet.
Good luck!

if the gun is a steal... well, you can always, worst case, have the barrel duplicated.. add $100 to the cost of a barrel...

i've had a couple dark bores... that actually shot okay... and some that responded really well to firelapping....

generally, unless it's BAD BAD (crawfish hole) it will shoot "all right" as is... i would be most worried about the crown!!

recall that it's a HUGE pit that's more than .005

jeffe

Boha, I have had horribly pitted barrels still shoot acceptably well. You won't know until you try it. I would not worry about barrels bursting or splitting just from that. It would take some enormous metal loss to get to that point. One thing for certain, the only way to lessen the value of an old, pitted Westly Richards is to put a new, unpitted barrel on it.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
One thing for certain, the only way to lessen the value of an old, pitted Westly Richards is to put a new, unpitted barrel on it.

Maybe I have to prevent someone else from doing that by purchasing the rifle..

I must try it out it seems.

Boha

First of all is it a WR rifle? If so which one. If it is one of their own designs and the price is reasonable to that value buy it. If not, as stated above, you can always work it hard with cleaning supplies, brushes etc. and then give it a go. If the bore can be polished to provide some accuracy it will be worth having. I have even done this with barrels that then required paper patching to make them shoot very accurately.
If it is not a superior rifle but rather simply a rifle converted to .318 also consider the cost of your ammo, dies and brass in making it a shooter, along with the costs of the new barrel.
In any event I would require shooting first if it is not a WR rifle.
Frank

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
if the gun is a steal... well, you can always, worst case, have the barrel duplicated.. add $100 to the cost of a barrel...

jeffe

jeffe,

I just had Krieger do a duplicate of a military 98 US Krag barrel for me (I supplied the pattern barrel) and they only charged me $10.00 extra and that was for the oversize length (30 inches.)

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by tiggertate:
One thing for certain, the only way to lessen the value of an old, pitted Westly Richards is to put a new, unpitted barrel on it.

One thing I have done with this problem is to have a new barrel with the exact same profile put on the rifle and then if I want to sell it, I put the old barrel and most often the original stock into the deal when I sell. Any collector willing to take the rifle in that condition is willing to pay the extra costs of the barrel and stock as well.
I personally like to shoot them all even when they are not MOA.

Frank

quote:

Originally posted by boha:

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
One thing for certain, the only way to lessen the value of an old, pitted Westly Richards is to put a new, unpitted barrel on it.

Maybe I have to prevent someone else from doing that by purchasing the rifle..



I must try it out it seems.

Boha

Good on ya, Boha


Frank. if it didn't shoot that's what I might do as well.

quote:

Maybe I have to prevent someone else from doing that by purchasing the rifle..

I must try it out it seems.

Boha

That is a very sefless and brave course of action. We salute your courage under fire .

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

i've had a couple dark bores... that actually shot okay... and some that responded really well to firelapping....

jeffe

Jeffe, Tell me more about your firelapping experience. What improved? Accuracy, fouling, velocity?I've got a couple pitted barrels on rifles I don't want to rebarrel, yet, a 1903 springfield sporter, and a Turk mauser sporter. I'm worried that I'll go from a pitted .308 bore to a smooth .310 bore.

quote:

Picture of boha

Posted Mar 16, 2:16 AM
How much is too much? Is there a rule of thumb as to how much disfiguration or pitting prevents a barrel from being safely used? I will have the opportunity to examine and perhaps purchase an old British rifle that obviousely has a pretty dark bore (.318 WR). What do I look for?
Unless I can use it I will not buy.

Boha

To answer this will take a careful examination of the rifle. If you are buying an original WR at collector prices you need to look at the many differnt sets of serial numbers you will find. They should all match or at least be identifiable as WR parts. I have an original catalog if that might help you see what it should look like. I also have two original takedowns- one a barrel takedown and one a barrelled action takedown. PM me if you can describe your target rifle and maybe we can compare notes.
If, however you are only buying a shooter, just check it out at the range and see if it will group.Look for the obvious problems, like rust or loose fitting parts or other abuse it may have taken. I can also send you a photo of one group I had with mine using original ammo.
How much is it worth? Only you can determine that.
Frank
I would personally like to see your target rifle if you could take photos.

Thank you gentlemen! Lots of sound reasoning, much obliged. I will take a look at it Monday.
It´s claimed to be a genuine WR 1920 something..

I´ll get back to you.

Boha

quote:

Originally posted by boha:
Thank you gentlemen! Lots of sound reasoning, much obliged. I will take a look at it Monday.
It´s claimed to be a genuine WR 1920 something..

I´ll get back to you.

Boha

Don't let a dark bore scare you, I own a couple of Lee Enfields with dark bores ,If it has good strong rifling it will shoot ,grab it with both hands if the price is right!

I went ahead and bought the rifle. The bore did look dark and rough but not pitted. Some recistance can be felt pushing patches through. I'll examine the bore more closely with my gunsmith. The dies are on their way. My guts tell me it'll shoot.
A beauty, made in 1921 for Lyon&Lyon in Calcutta by WR, according to the serial number.

Great find, boha! I bet it shoots as well as the day it was made. You might want to hand-lap the barrel a tiny bit with really fine compound. That will smooth up thebore enough for patches to slide easier. Don't be tempted to use any of the fire-lapping processes on something that old and valuable. I think they have some uses for new barrels but not in a case like this.

Boha,

I really like the mount you made with your mother-in-laws skull. Most people just bury relatives by marriage when they pass on, but you have crafted a lasting tribute.

Beautiful rifle as well.

LD

Just had to save that long nose she had when she passed on...

Nice rifle!

Another possible idea is to have the barrel re-bored to .323.

Boha
when I got my lee enfields I had the same rough feel but after I put 5 or 6 cartridges through them they smoothed up nicely. nice looking rifle