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I was just thinking about having a new barrel screwed onto a Post-64 I have. I was also going to have a Laminate stock done for it. My plan is for a medium weight deer/coyote/woodchuck gun. I was thinking 6mm-284. I dont want to get rid of it and get a new action as I am sure some will suggest ;due to this was my first rifle I ever bought. I have always wanted to spruce it up a little. It shoots pretty well and has a butter smooth bolt. Also the trigger adjusted as well as any remington I have ever tweaked. Its pretty good actually. The idea of making it a semi-custom has me feeling like a kid in a candy store LOL. I just want to know from gunsmiths point of view if it really is THAT much of a fools errand to do this. I am not really concerned with the value of the rifle when finished as I will probably never sell it. It is in .270 now and shoots sub-MOA with many diferent loads. I believe the potential is there for it to be fairly accurate. I also have a spare Vari-X III 6.5-20LR that would look work just peachy for shooting those 'chucks way out there. Thanx fellas! All educated opinons welcome. | ||
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If your mind can get past it being a push feed M70 they are actually great rifles. I went out in a rush and bought one of the last 6.5X55 M70 featherweight Classics at Sportsmans Warehouse when I heard the bad news a fews years back about the M70 production lines closing. When I got the rifle home and examied it closely I was shocked at how bad the quality had become. I would take one of the old push feed M70's any day of the week over the last run of M70 Classics. The two M70 push feed rifles I owned were both smooth and accurate. Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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Just be sure to get the later model push feed that has the "anti-bind" slot cut into the right bolt lug. This slides on a rail in the right side of the reciever. The early M70 push feeds did not have this feature.  Doug Humbarger NRA Life member Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club 72'73. Yankee Station Try to look unimportant. Your enemy might be low on ammo. | |||
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I bought one of the XTR's in 300 H + H (new) because it had great wood and I really wanted the chambering. I have had no problems with function with it. But have to confess it has only had load development work done-- about 100 rounds down the tube. | |||
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I've had three of the older ones and liked them all. I still have a .243 which is one of my favorite rifles. In my experience they tend to be a bit more accurate then the CRF rifles as well. Just my opinion but I'm not sold on the necessity of CRF on non-dangerous game caliber rifles. Cheers, Andy | |||
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I had a late 60's M70 Varmint in 22-250 at one time. It was a pretty nice rifle. | |||
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You can do some really nice things with a post 64 M70. Here is a 22/250 varmint I built on one. It started life as a 243 and went through a couple .308 Win barrels before I decided I needed a dedicated varmint rifle. I used a Shilen #5 1:9 barrel that shoots incredibly well. The stock is from the Winchester Custom Shop and I used the Williams Orbendorf bottom metal. I was able finish it just before I deployed to Iraq and even smack a few prairie dogs with it. I have another m70 300 WM that is getting a similar treatment.    William Berger True courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway. - John Wayne The courageous may not live forever, but the timid do not live at all. | |||
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Very nice rifle M1! Thanx for the replys guys. I don't have a problem with the push feed but a couple people I have ran the idea by act like I am an idiot for even wanting to mess w/ it. Like it has the plaugue or something just because it doesn't have a claw. Just curious M1 how you like the #5 contour,'cause thats what I am thinking. This will be my first foray into "customizing" a rifle and I am pretty excited. It will take me a few months I think to scratch the pennies around but I think the wait will be worth it. I just spent my gun budget savings on a Cooper m21 that is a wonderous piece of rifle. I will just enjoy that while I save up. The only problem is the cost of components going up  ! Man I Looked a box of Hornady Interbonds the other day and the price almost made me pass out. Thank again Pat | |||
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K, ignore them, the push feeds are fine rifles for common uses. A few seem to have taken the concept of "controlled feed" being nice when facing charging cape buffalo into them being a hazard to our health when faced with a white-tail Bambi. NOT so! However, I question your consideration of rebarreling into a 6mm/284. All that is, ballistically, is a 6mm/30-06 or .240 Weatherby. Actions made for conventional diameter cartridges, .473" head size AND standard body taper, feed well. Not all of those modified for fatter rounds do so. In fact, if it were mine and I really wanted to change it into a long range game/varmit rifle I would seriously look at making it a .25-06. Good ballistics, easy availablity of ammo, and it would still feed properly too. Actually, if it were mine, I'd damp sure leave it a .270. at least until the barrel goes bad. | |||
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Thanks for the compliment on the rifle. It is now one of my very favorite rifles I have ever owned. I was a little nervous when I decided to use the #5 contour. I thought it might be too heavy for a medium weight varmint rifle. I am very glad I chose that barrel and contour. It is heavy enough for serious varmint work and still light enough that you can carry it around in comfort. Do not let yourself be put off about using a push feed M70. I love the CRF as much as anyone but it is not the be all end all that so many make it out to be. I have carried a M24 a lot of miles in combat and it sure is not a CRF. A push feed has worked great for both the Army and Marines for a lot of years and still going. Build what you want and be happy with it. You are the only one that you need to please. Here is a photo of the target from my first trip out to the range with the rifle. Not too bad for a clunker push feed and a thrown together load from the books.  William Berger True courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway. - John Wayne The courageous may not live forever, but the timid do not live at all. | |||
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I prefer CRF and yet I bought a 70 FWT PF in 6.5x55 recently. I love this rifle and have no problem (psychologically or mechanically) with this rifle. ......civilize 'em with a Krag | |||
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When it comes right down to it, there's not a whole lot of difference between a PF M70 and a Rem 700. And there's plenty of guys out there that think the 700's are the greatest thing since sliced bread. | |||
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Push feed is not a problem on a non dangerous game rifle. Controlled round feeding will be appreciated by the guy who has a lion top...he on the bottom and he's trying to crank a round into the chamber while the rifle is upside down...Personally, I make it a point that dangerous game rifles will feed and function in ANY position..up, down sideways (both ways and upside down...If you have a push feed in these positions and under stress, kiss you ass good bye! | |||
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No, they are not bad at all. They're fine rifles by and large. No less a hunter - and professional at that - than Finn Aagaard used one in .458 Win. Mag. for many years on many a dangerous game safari. The subsequent resurrection by Winchester of the CRF version has made the post-64 PFs bargains to boot. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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I have often said it is not really controlled round feeding. It is really controlled round extraction. If you work the bolt slowly on a push feed you will notic ethat when the cartridge releases from the rails the nose is well past the feed ramp and into the chamber already. At least that is the way it is on my remingtons. I have actualy cycled my remingtons upside down and they cycle fine. In my opinion which is not worth much CRF is really only helpful if you start to chamber a round and then decide not too. Since the extractor has a grip on the case head you can pull it back out. If you look at the point of where the round releases from the rails on a push feed...there is now way it can fall out, teh nose is so far into the chamber there is only on place that round is going...home into the chamber. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I have 4 model 70 CRF rifles now. Two compact and two featherweights. Have had 375 CRF, 338, and two supergrades. All were early new crf manufactured. No problems with them. I was going to buy a 30-06 featherweight (just before the announcement), and it was so crudely made I passed on the ones I looked at. | |||
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If we're being honest and including the world MOST dangerous game, then that would include Marine Corps and Army snipers, and, those armies all over the world who use PF M16's. I was a Marine Corps armorer and all of our push feeds had to function under the most strenuous of conditions. K20350, there is nothing inherently wrong with the post 64 push feed M70's. They just aren't sexy enough to get you invited into certain crowds. _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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Well, not really. All you have to do is pull the bolt back, lift the muzzle and the round will fall out. My .458WM rounds are so heavy they will fall out if loaded slowly upside down. | |||
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I just love the way CRF merchants think. So you've got this bloody great lion on you, he's been chewing away since he got there. The rifle is somehow still available and not pinned down anywhere, and now CRF is going to fix everything up?? Popping him before he gets there with a PF would be preferable I'd say. | |||
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You don't seem to have much of an idea of the problems CRF's have. The average off the shelf one is quite likely to jam/playup or work like a PF anyway. If a future buyer turns his nose up to it being a very nice looking, very accurate, smooth operating PF tell him to piss- off, as he's not good enough for your rifle. A CRF is mainly for people that can't work a bolt action properly. | |||
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JAL, You did not comprehend what I was saying. You will note I said it really is controlled round extraction. Of course if you pull the bolt back the round can fall out. My point is everybody makes this big deal about controlled round FEEDING and the advantage is related to controll of the round during extraction. In a dangerous situation, I generally do no change my mind about whether or not I want another round in the chamber. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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My post 64 .458 is the most accurate .458 of the 12 different ones I have owned. It functions perfectly with all my handloads and any factory ammo I have put through it. It handles nice and has held up well with several hundred rounds through it. I had one like it several years ago and kicked myself for selling it. I found this one at Champlins about 2 or so years ago. I believe the Finn Agaard (sp?) used the same gun as a PH and swore by it. | |||
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To me there is a whole lot of difference between the PF M70 and the Rem 700 - namely the recoil lug on the M70 is part of the receiver, where the 700 is a plate between the barrel and receiver. I like the M70 trigger better, and I like the M70 three-position safety much better, and it locks the bolt down too. The M70 extractor is better, and stronger. Anyway, there are enough important differences between the two actions that I refuse to own a Rem 700, and never will, and I don't care how accurate they are. I don't care how many yahoos have had good experiences with the 700 either, nor their uncles or grandpaws, etc. I do have one M70 short action PF, and like it very much, and I would not hesitate to buy another if the notion struck me. They are good actions. There's nothing bad about them except I think they aren't made anymore. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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Care to describe the 'functional' differences between the two? _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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Nothing wrong with them, especially in "Deer" calibers. have fun! opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I purchased one in 300 Winchester Mag the year they came out. That was the onlt rifle I've ever owned that broke down. 3 times. Each time the bolt handle would turn to the open position while the lugs stayed stationary. Not a problem with a fired case in the chamber. It became a problem when I opened the bolt with a live round in the chamber and the safety unable tyo engane. I got rid of it. | |||
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The winchester HBV pushfeeds are very much sought after guns and are hard to find and about twice the cost of when they first came out. I have owned a couple and they were awesome shooters right out of the box. These guns are bringing 800+ on the market today for a reason. | |||
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HBV? | |||
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Nahh, I don't think so. Debating with someone about Rem 700s is a conversation that has been beat to death. A real go nowhere debate. Functionally, the Savage is comparable, as are many others, but I suppose the main difference is that it's difficult to "function" any of them if one doesn't own one, anymore. Been there and won't go back. I just don't like Remington rifles, and I have my reasons, which are mine to cherish. Thank you very much.   KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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They build into excellent, accurate rifles. Resale value on them in customs is horrible. I agree with Duane on dangerous game. I always reccomend that last 2% of reliability with crf. | |||
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I have one made in 65' in 30.06 and its one of my most consistently accurate rifles @ 200 yds. Not a bad piece of wood besides. Enjoy | |||
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Of course I comprehended your post. Just don't exactly agree with it. Now of all the argueing about PF & CRF the exact benifit you state above must be a first? I believe there would be a few different ways I can get a round back with a PF without the doubtful benifit of a CRF. One I mentioned.
Well, people have had it happen, so I've read, but I believe that was their problem rather than an action type problem. The PF was probably designed to be operated in a forthright maner, bolt full back, bolt full forward bolt locked. Rifle upright, and not being waved around like a sling shot. It's peculiarities need to be allowed for and CRF MAY solve some of it's supposed problems while bringing its own. And controled feed or extract, call it what you want, but once a PF is locked it also has control of extraction. The argument is control enough or not. Until then I can control the extraction. I prefer PF for its basic simplicity. CRF MAY be better for DG by a few degrees, but if you worry too much about that, what the hell are you doing putting your self in harms way anyway? As said, anyone knocks back a good PF in a non DG rifle is just being difficult. | |||
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The M70 push feed rifles are not that bad. The best of them are those from about 1980 on. The receiver is machined on the bottom rather than just being left as it came from the die. The shortcoming of the post-64 rifles are all about the same whether they are push feed or CRF. The bolt sleeves are frequently sloppy. The bolt lock pin is the same. I don't like the chessy little clip which retains the striker spring. The bolt stop is floppy and all the stress is taken by the pin. The right side locking lug is hollow. Real hollow. They can work just fine though. I have two target rifles built on push feed M70's and both are very accurate and functional rifles. The triggers are basically good but not as easily adjustable as some (they have no sear engagement adjustment). The 6mm-284 is a fine cartridge if you like buying barrels. If you don't like it you won't have to shoot it too long before you have to rebarrel anyway. Regards, Bill | |||
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The M-70 PF is among the best bargains a going today......a lot of them can be had in superb condition for $450 and less. There is a nearly new .270 here that is consigned for $450 and I know it'd sell for $425.....and has a pretty piece of walnut attached to it as well. Their actions make excellent varmint rigs and great hunting rifles of all kinds.....I wouldn't hezitate to take one for dangerous game as the use of CRF is way overstated. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Thanx for all the great response! I have been trucking all week just thinking I should get a 700 and make it easy. My biggest problem is that the rifle is a detachable box magazine so finding a stock is proving to be a challenge. The stock that is on it is a piece of crap. No One I can find makes a stock. I have thought of using a Boyds JRS stock but know that it will take a ton of extra work finishing it due to the magazine. I want to use a sporter type stock and a #5 barrel. I thought about calling Mcmillan and see what they can come up with. I am kind of on a budget so this isnt a cost-is-no-object kind of deal(baby on the way last party for a while). This is going to be a hunting rifle so I want a synthetic or laminate. I am going to have pac-nor do the re-barrel. I kind of want something different so that was my thought behind 6mm-284. Other considerations are 6mm-06 AI, 6mm Rem AI. I want a caliber that I can use for deer,coyote,woodchucks, and a little long range playing at my Uncles farm. The 6mm deal is that I have a boatload of 6mm bullets from load testing a B!&@#H of a rifle that I had bought for my little brother as a graduation gift. This is going to be my do-all for a little while. I don't think any lions or bears are going to be knocking me over in the bean fields of central Michigan. If it does happen I think I will be too busy filling my pants than having to worry about rounds falling out of the rifle. Every one has been a great help. Any ideas stock wise would be awesome. Thanx Pat | |||
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