The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing Why is ebony the most common stock cap wood?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
I am just curious. Is it just because? Obviously you want a dense contrasting wood, but why don't you see more cocobolo, osage orange, bloodwood, etc.? I was at a Woodcraft store today and saw a lot of heavy, dense bowl turning blocks that would look great as a stock cap. | ||
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I guess because it is black and rare. But so are other exotic woods; Be careful some of these woods are toxic (don't breath the dust) and oily; hard to glue unless you de-grease them. | |||
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Probably the same reason you don't see diamond inlays, and flared pistol grips: because they look like shit. This is also the reason cars don't have tail fins and whitewalls..... I have ofter wondered why we don't see more African Blackwood. It seems like a great alternative to ebony as it looks like ebony but is supposed to me more stable. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Okay, so the selective use of high quality natural wood looks like like shit... That reply said nothing, anyone else? | |||
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I think it's because it goes well with just about any and all stock woods. And it lends a classic look, very few people will say an ebony forend tip looks like shit. As the engineer I used to work with liked to say, "It's fine as far as form fit and function goes, but it looks like shit." But it's your rifle, not mine. | |||
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Just my opinion here, nothing more. I like the looks of ebony fore-end caps and pistol grip caps. I can say the same for Rose Wood. I have seen some really nice fore end caps made from both birds eye and tiger stripe maple. I o0nce had a rifle that I made the fore end cap from cured mesquite. Ebony and white line spacers were popular at one time, and I can remember when clear plexiglas spacers were some what popular. It is all up to the individual, I do not let another individuals likes or dislikes dictate how I want the guns I own and use look. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I can't remember what wood my stock maker used in this photo. He told me it would look nice and be different. I do like it,but the next build he did for me, I spec'd in a ebony tip and Pilkingtons winchester red,just to be different. I might add that I'll have him do another one soon and this has me thinking what wood to use next. I have some jet black Gabon ebony to use on 2 rifles later and there are many different types of ebony. I might use some moluccan ebony next.  Moluccan Ebony  "A long life, and the good sense to live it." ...Quintis Arrius 375H&H,404J,416DAK,458AFR,416RIG,450RIG,505GIB Avatar: Gregory Peck & Susan Hayward in Africa NRA member | |||
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I thought the original intent of the ebony forend tip was to seal the end grain of the stock. Ebony was probably just a simple yet dense piece of wood the gunmaker could use to cap the end and it looks similar to a horn forend tip. ____________________________ If you died tomorrow, what would you have done today ... 2018 Zimbabwe - Tuskless w/ Nengasha Safaris 2011 Mozambique - Buffalo w/ Mashambanzou Safaris | |||
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It was sort of a crude response, but actually pretty accurate. There is a lot of pretty wood out there, most just find it best suited for furniture not gunstocks. Think of a nice walnut stock with an ebony tip as a 69 Camaro. Think of a maple stock with a purple heart tip as a four door chevelle. People put lots of money into both but one is considered classic the other not so much. ______________________ Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else. | |||
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That was my thought as well. The first "custom rifle" had horn as an embelishment and being somewhat less than permanently stable so Ebony was a reasonably exotic alternative and with the experience of the piano makers had the stability required, so the gunmakers could be satisfied there would be no deteriation of the rifle. | |||
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Seal the end of the stock? With the hide and milk glues they had in the 19th century? I don't think that was the reason. Ebony is not native to either Europe or the US, so it was just an exotic ornamental piece. Fore end caps are there just for looks. If they really wanted to protect the end of the stock they would have used iron or brass like all military arms had, of the period. BTW, I like tail fins on cars. | |||
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When I was in Gunsmith school in 1952 the most popular forearm tip was probably Rosewood followed by Ebony then Tigerwood,Vermillion,Purple Heart,Ironwood,Maple (both curly and birdseye). Rarely were spaccers used but once had a Mesquite blank given me by Roy Weatherby that had a slanted tip of rosewood with a holly (white) spacer. Tips were veed in,slanted,conventional. Long and short both were used. I actually preferred Rosewood and Purple Heart though I used Vermillion for many years. I have used both Macasser and Gaboon Ebony over the years. In those years the stock was not really so purist as they are today. Stockmakers were prepared to experiment with maaterials and design. Today on this forum and many others if the 'traditional' British design is not used it is really not accepted. Also at TSJC a laminated blank was developed and was exceptionally popular as it was cheap and durable. Actually ,as hard as it is to believe,most of the stock design changes such as monte carlos,rollovers,flared pistol grip caps were done to enhance the shootability and in some cases actually improve use. I know that is hard to believe. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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First let me say I am a bad person and like stocks with the flared grips and swoopy parts. For some rifles a very traditional look is a must, a buffalo rifle as an example. But for me on a plains game/deer rifle anything goes. For a for end tip I like a piece of wood that has some meaning to me, I have used mesquite from a tree that grew in the yard of my parents’ house. When in RSA they were burning Leadwood that had been collected at the hunting area for the camp fire, I cut at it until I found a chunk that was free of cracks large enough for a tip. I hunt in Texas for hogs on a friend’s property; I have some Osage Orange drying for a tip on a gun to be used to hunt there, maybe with Pecan for the rest of the stock, all woods that grow on the property. Mark | |||
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I agree that my response was crude, but I believe it was accurate and got right down to the basic reason these "fancy" woods are not used. Of course I was stating my opinion when I said that these other woods "look like shit", but it is pretty obvious that the vast majority of riflemen agree with me. So, now I will give you a reply that you might find worth reading: What is the function of a fore end tip? Most agree that is is purely aesthetic and that it's main function is to add contrast to the stock(aesthetics aside, almost any stable wood or other similar material would function as well as ebony). I would say that it should not detract attention from the stock. An ebony tip adds contrast on two levels. The most obvious is that it is dark, while the stockwood is relatively light. It is rarely mentioned, but an ebony tip provides contrast on a second level: it is plain(a single solid color) in contrast to the stockwood, which is is usually anything but plain(figure, crotch feather, marblecake, etc.). To my eye a fancy fore end tip attracts attention to itself(and away from the stock wood). In addition, having two different highly figured woods on the same stock serves to add a disconcerting visual cacophony to the overall feel of the stock. But the bottom line is this: Fashion dictates what our stocks currently "wear". No one should be shy about using whatever they want on a stock. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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I switched to blackwood a few rifles ago and at the suggestion of Wayne at AHR. Still have a big chunk. Legend has it that back in the day ebony was the poor man's alternative to buffalo horn. It was chosen because it had the least visible grain and copied the look of polished horn best. Nowadays polished horn looks so much like black plastic that few outside of affecianados want it. I like just enough figure in the wood to prove it isn't really a big piece of shiney black plastic. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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I use ebony because it's black and thats the look I want plus it's easy to work unlike buff horn. Still, after doing a lot of them I'm nearly over it anyway. The tip comes in real handy if you want to use a nice blank that is too short or has a fault you need to work around. | |||
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Guess I'll throw my two-bits in here and then go do something which isn't just a matter personal likes and dislikes. First off, I suspect I have owned a better than average number of completely original British "classics" than the average bear. Makers such as C&H, A&N, (they weren't actually a maker, but were a seller), WR, H&H, Jeffery, Fraser, Rigby, and numerous others, made their way into my vault, all made before 1932. A very few of the ones I owned MAY have had forend tips of contrasting wood, but I can guarantee you that most of them had no "add-on" forend tip at all. And although most of them had very hard (not pourous) walnut stocks and the wood was very carefully selected by the makers for strength and grain flow, none of it had the spectacular (and usually lower strength) grain one sees so often today. The object was perfect functioning and maximum strength, not coffee table beauty. Forend tips didn't really start to show up on any of my rifles until the late 1940's and later. Yet, I still liked the originals better and I still do. I think if a guy wants a piece of ginger bread or anything else in his rifle stock, he is best served by picking woods he really likes the look of for both stock and tip. It almost certainly won't look like so many of my real "classics" did, but then everyone should use the propulsive tools that move his OWN boat best for HIM. Nothing wrong with that, in fact it is a good thing. One only goes around once, so follow Frank Sinatra's lead...Do It YOUR way. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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You knocked it out into the parking lot behind center field with that one! I couldn't agree more. Contrast Contrast!!! Matt FISH!! Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984: "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." | |||
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its a matter of taste ... 200 years ago, lobster was fed to indentured servants, and by law couldn't be fed to them every day .. 47 years ago, diamond inlays where the rage ... i have a flaigg that I wouldn't part with, for sentimental reasons.. but compared to today, its a bit ugly .. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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My brother was telling me that. Must have been rough... ____________________________ If you died tomorrow, what would you have done today ... 2018 Zimbabwe - Tuskless w/ Nengasha Safaris 2011 Mozambique - Buffalo w/ Mashambanzou Safaris | |||
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Ther are still remnants of giant chiken barns in Maine from its long-past commercial chicken industry. Lobsters were harvested and processed for chicken feed. I have no idea if I'm right but I've always thought that bottom feeding fish (catfish in particular) and crustaceans were considered trash and poor people's food because there was no sewage treatment. It didn't take a great mind to put the fact that feces sank to the bottom with "bottom feeding" to consider these animals contaminated. Sorry for the hijack... "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Some people eat carp, and say it's good. Never tried it myself. | |||
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Tailfins and whitewalls are cool. Especially on a 1962 Caddy. So is ebony for a fore end tip. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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An ebony fore end tip would look out of place on a 1962 caddy. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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I think it is an individual taste. Yes, ebony has been a classic for a few years, but definitely not a 68 Camaro. In fact, it is rather boring. Yup, there's another Impala, and another Impala, and another Impala. After a while, they all look alike, boring. If you have seen one, you have seen 90% of them. I DO like the ones that Jim Kobe puts on with the widow's peak, but that could be in any good hardwood. Like someone else said, I just like personal variety. I just looked and do not have a single rifle with an ebony forend. I have one that came from a real Fajen blank that carries a rosewood, one that is cocobolo and one with mesquite. Of course the Browning Highwall in 30-06 is rosewood, as is the Micro-medallion. Just a matter of taste and times. Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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Choice of materials is also relevant to the location. What is exotic in one locality is probably not exotic where it occurs naturally. My best personal example of this is way back in the stone age I was apprenticed to a blacksmith in Denmark when I was 13. Eventually I was shown how to forge a knife blade, my first one! After a lot of effort for a young boy, my grizzled old mentor chose a block of a "special" wood from his personal collection that he showed me how to make the handle out of. Anyway, after the knife was finished he said to me- "That is a good piece of wood for the handle- it is hickory, and it came all the way from America!" Nowadays stuff can get shipped all over the world in a day or two and cheaply at that, but back when it was not so simple some relatively durable and stable wood had a certain cachet from being from the other side of the planet. for every hour in front of the computer you should have 3 hours outside | |||
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Rosewood looks great on an electric blue laminate.  ______________________ Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else. | |||
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-he's gonna read this? | |||
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Why do you think he won't read it? Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Yup, sure did...that was a nice answer. | |||
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I'm glad that you thought that my reply was worth reading and I'll admit that my first reply was unnecessary. After doing some thinking I realized why I hate fancy fore end tips: the first stock I made was figured claro walnut with a striped fore end tip. After putting hours and hours into the stock I put the stock finish on and found that the wood really came to life. Unfortunately the finish highlighted the fact that the fore end tip was a horrible match for the stock. After letting the hate grow on me for a couple of years I tossed the stock in the trash. Looking back that was a pretty good move.  Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Genuine Indian Rosewood is now illegal to cut & process. I do not know the rules about using old wood. I have a small amount from some old furniture of my parents which was made in 1950 - when they were married. I do not know when the tree was cut. Very hard and brittle wood that warps and cracks easily. The really old wood is very stable. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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I bought some African blackwood, gonna give it a try. Less expensive than ebony, no cracks compared to some ebony blanks I have had, very hard & dense like ebony, tight closed pores like ebony, slightly more purple/dark brown streaks but not unpleasing.  NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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That answers a lot of questions I had. | |||
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I noticed that Brownells no longer offers Ebony. Midway still has it listed. There is some listed on Ebay with varying grades,but is seems good grades has gone up in price. Now China has developed into a big buyer and restrictions have been placed on exports. Anybody having any problem buying ebony recently? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/scie...environment-21759988 "A long life, and the good sense to live it." ...Quintis Arrius 375H&H,404J,416DAK,458AFR,416RIG,450RIG,505GIB Avatar: Gregory Peck & Susan Hayward in Africa NRA member | |||
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I think ebony was used more than Cocobolo etc because it was recognizable by the public and available as it was being imported for the musical instrument makers, and everyone "knew" that the black keys on a piano and the finger boards on a stringed instrument were made from ebony. So ebony was the obvious choice to put a nice contrasting end cap on a rifle as the buyer would know what he was getting. | |||
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Some of the high grade British guns made in the early 20th century had buffalo horn forend tips. Ebony is easier to get and work with and looks similar. As has been noted, fancy figured wood on a forend tends to contrast too much and looks a bit gaudy, like stripped pants with a plaid coat. | |||
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True. The great majority of the previously owned bepoken rifles I bought out of Africa and he Indian sub-continent had buffalo horn forend tips and grip caps (and sometimes butt plates)[IF they had forend tips at all. I prefer buffalo horn to ebony...I guess because there is something about the horn texture that makes me feel like I can look right "into" it rather than just look '"at" it. Gives it a bit of mystique I just don't see in ebony.... My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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Horn is nice, especially on a French walnut stock witha lot of red in it. Horn does need some care as it ages as it can get dried out and delaminate. Depending on climate and storage humidity, a periodic wipedown with mineral oil will keep it "alive" for generations. As for ebony, there are many, many varieties. This site is generally aimed at musical stuff but they have block ebony as well. Page back to page 11 for but one example of blocks big enough for fore end tips or buttplates. It can also be dyed to a blacker color if you wish. https://www.gilmerwood.com/sea...ywords=ebony&page=11 | |||
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