A friend was shooting my Universal M-1 carbine today and commented that the slide (bolt handle) was a bit hard to pull back. After shooting another 20 rounds, I took a look at the action and noticed that it was broken in one place and cracked in another.

I am looking for a part to replace it, but in the meantime I need to know why it would have broke and if a weld repair would be suitable or safe to use after repair.



I have no idea how many rounds were put through it before I bought it, but it seemed to be in good condition. I have only put about 300 rounds through it since I bought it.

I found one Universal carbine slide on Gunbroker for $97. The Universal slide is different than the military M-1 carbine slides.

Ranb

All things considered, 97 bucks sounds like a good quick fix.

Welding it will render a part that will not be exactly as it was before it broke, perhaps not different enough to effect its function, perhaps so.

97 is about half of the last time i bought one

Check out www.accu-tig.com for weld repair

See if a GI part will fit. Your part looks like a poor quality stamping.

The GI part is much different than the Universal part. There is no way I can adapt it.

Ranb

I'd advise not putting any money into it. Save your cash and put it toward a real M-1 Carbine; prices on them have dropped considerably and you'll be a whole lot better off.

Looks like Accutig works on that part and already has a price posted on their web site.
I am sure Accutig can fix it. Their fix may well last longer than the original but the part design looks problematic.

quote:

Originally posted by Toomany Tools:
I'd advise not putting any money into it. Save your cash and put it toward a real M-1 Carbine; prices on them have dropped considerably and you'll be a whole lot better off.

DITTO! John has given you excellent advice.

Have it tig'd, next time the block will break off. Weld that back on and then you should be good to go for awhile.

The charging handle on those is one of the worst designs in modern firearm history. I paid $300 for my Universal M1 Carbine, which at the time a GI was only $350. The only reason I bought the universal was that it came with $800 worth of parts, mags, and accessories for M1 Carbines, Garands, BAR's, etc.

But like Toomany Tools said, save your money and buy a real one.

Accutig [Dan] has done work for me as well as others I know and has done a GREAT job! He can fix the slide to be better than the original.
Aloha, Mark

quote:

I'd advise not putting any money into it. Save your cash and put it toward a real M-1 Carbine; prices on them have dropped considerably and you'll be a whole lot better off.

+

quote:

quote:
I'd advise not putting any money into it. Save your cash and put it toward a real M-1 Carbine; prices on them have dropped considerably and you'll be a whole lot better off.

to that, he'd still have a busted rifle laying around- so complete the rifle, sell it, then buy the GI issue.

I'd never do it, nor advise someone else to pawn there problems off onto someone else.

If I ever get rid of the rifle, it will be in parts.

Meanwhile I have a friend who can do a weld repair. I normally wear glasses, so I have some protection if some pieces fly off. I will not replace the part unless I can get it much cheaper than the $97 I saw in gunbroker.

Thanks for the advice guys.

Ranb

quote:

Originally posted by Toomany Tools:
I'd never do it, nor advise someone else to pawn there problems off onto someone else.

That was quite a slap in the face.

If it's repaired, it ain't a problem- you're making me out a scoundrel. I guess accu-tig, also.

Which I am not, nor he.

I guess you've never owned a used automobile, or you kept them all.

When it's sold full disclosure is needed. Tell them what happened and what was done to fix it. With a little research on the web they will find that this is a very common problem with these rifles and welding it to repair it is the common fix. Selling off a problem rifle is not pawning off problems on someone else so long as you make it clear what they are buying.

My appologies if I offended you; it was not my intent.

However, I know the Universal very well: It is NOT an M1 Carbine; it IS an extremely poorly designed firearm and every one ever built will break with use exactly as this one did. I would not recommend welding it as it is higly likely that it will break again, and the next time someone could get hurt---it's not worth that risk-period!

I know enough about cars that I wouldn't buy nor sell a Yugo or a Trabant and this is the same case.

quote:

Originally posted by Toomany Tools:
My appologies if I offended you; it was not my intent.

However, I know the Universal very well: It is NOT an M1 Carbine; it IS an extremely poorly designed firearm and every one ever built will break with use exactly as this one did. I would not recommend welding it as it is higly likely that it will break again, and the next time someone could get hurt---it's not worth that risk-period!

I know enough about cars that I wouldn't buy nor sell a Yugo or a Trabant and this is the same case.

Fair enough.

quote:

Universal M1 Carbine
TIG Weld Op Rod -$35.00
(Customer Supplied)

Send it off and have it repaired.

i know where i can pick on up fairly cheap, that is pre-broken.

40 bucks round trip is trivial.. for as little as i would shoot it.

I bought a Universal many years ago at a gunshow. It was the typical "too good to be true" price. I should have field stripped it at the show before I bought it. The block had been brazed back in place. That lasted for about 30 rounds (or less-it went quick) before it broke again.

I took it over to Smith Enterprises in Tempe, AZ (at that time at least, don't know if they're still there). They charged me around $100 to weld up the whole thing new again with a new rod. It never broke again, and when my wife discovered how much fun it was to shoot, she ran 100's of rounds through it over many years of good use.

I foolishly sold it off, or traded it for something, I don't remember exactly. I'm kind of sorry I didn't keep that little carbine. My wife was sorry too, she liked shooting it. I confess I did get tired of loading 30 carbine ammo for her to blaze away though...

If you're planning on keeping it long term, get it fixed, it'll be worth it for the use you'll get, and have the block welded on at the same time you have the rod fixed. They are fun little guns.

If you're not planning on keeping it, or shooting it much, then I'm not sure it's worth the effort.

I did a weld repair to the slide. I took it to the range and while it sighted in well enough with a scope attached, I decided that the M-1 carbine is a poor choice of rilfes for use with a silencer. The gas system vents back into the barrel instead of directly into the atmosphere, but there is enough additional backpressure to blow gas back into my face. There is enough of a breeze out of the action to make my hair move and require wrap around goggles to prevent eye irritation.

After about 30 rounds, the slide cracked again. Not sure what I will do with it now.

Ranb

I'll give you a hundred bucks for it

Seriously though. There is a way to fix these by welding up the slide but a plate needs to be added to the slide to make the slide strong enough for repeated use. Granted a new slide would be better but a plate to cover the hole the bolt lug slides on would increase the strength in that area significantly. The key is not making the plate to thick as to add additional mass the slide then you'd run into reliability issue.

Seriously though it can be fixed.
Or tell me what you thinks it's worth.

Friggin A!!! I knew I liked this forum. I know how to repair it now. Hindsight is obvious right? Thanks kcstott.

I have gotten lots of crap in the past on gun forums for discussing certain topics (ie silencers), but it is posts like that that make all that crap worthwhile.

I can do another weld repair just like the one I did before, but this time cap it with .075" piece of sheet metal. It is like the difference between a sedan and a convertible. Since the metal is rather brittle, there must be a way to make it tougher (softer) and less brittle.

How hot do I need to get it to anneal it, or is this a bad idea?

Adding a little extra weight to the slide will delay opening the bolt a bit; this is a good thing considering all the gunpowder gas blowback I am getting. If the additional weight does not fix the blowback problem, I can simply reduce the powder charge until blowback is acceptable. This rifle will never be used for hunting or self defense, so a slightly reduced plinking load may be just what I need.

Ranb

What powder are you using?

You might use a little faster powder with annealed case mouths. This will minimise the powder blow back and stress on the sheet metal bolt cam.

I knew I should never had said anything I was try to score a POS and gave away the secret.
The original US GI part is designed the same way so is the M1 Garand M14, and M1A.
Don't anneal it. If anything just pre heat it before welding and leave it on a hot plate after welding. That will be your post weld heating. Leave it in an as welded condition. Too soft and the bolt will wear a grove in it. to hard (from rapid cooling) will cause a crack.

Use ER70S2 rod or S6 if you have it or if your weldor has it. Just tell your weldor to not get it to hot. If he knows what he's doing he can do it.
The weld should have a rainbow of colors on it not just gunmetal gray. The gunmetal gray color is indicative of overheating.
This is of course referring to Tig welding.

Now just be aware that you can not extend that cover down to low as that is where it rides on the receiver and in between the stock and receiver. But it should be welded 100% around the outside and along the bottom as best as your weldor can as the fillet may cause interference.
All that said the stress of firing will be pushed off to some other area most likely near a weld where the stresses build up while transitioning through the part. So tell your weldor no undercuts and the starts and stops of all welds need to have good crater fill and perfect transitions around the joint. If he understands that you're in good hands. If not My offer still stands... To weld it for you not buy it from you.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
What powder are you using?

I was shooting factory ammo. I also have surplus WC820 which is the actual 30 carbine powder.

Ranb

I repaired the slide again. This time I welded a section of pipe that has the same radius of the curve of the slide. Shaping with a grinder and TIG welding in place should make it much stronger.




If this stays together, I have to make a load that cycles the action and does not blow excessive amounts of gas in my face.

Ranb

Well thats close but not what I was referring to.

I ment cover the entire hole and weld back near the charging handle.
You still have a very thin area right behind the patch that will be taking a lot of stress.

If a plate was made to span the hole say .375" forward and reverse of the hole. It would spread the load out.

I will consider that after I test fire it. I saw another photo today that shows a crack behind and inside of the two that I have. Both cracks are covered by the piece and a weld bead, so it is stronger now. Thanks for your help.

Ranb

I tested it yesterday and it fed and extracted fine with no breakage. It is still unsuitable as a silencer host. The added backpressure with the silencer attached blows lots of gas into my face even with a load that barely extracts. I think I will not be using it with the silencer attached in the future.

Ranb