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i am sure this has been asked alot but going to ask again . is break inn actually needed ? and what do you recommend ? i have always done kreigers break inn up to my last 3 rifles they are all tikka t3 and amazingly accurate outta the box i now have a sako a7 300 wsm havent shot it yet but wondering if the break inn ever did me any good before ? thanks for any response . | ||
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Just one opinion here..... NO /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Break it in by shooting it... Sure there are microscopic ridges in the surface of the bore and as well as mfg waste in the bbl. So give it a good cleaning before you take it to the range. Sure maybe fire a round and clean fire a round and clean but that would be about it. This whole shoot 1 clean for 5 rounds then shoot 3 clean for 15 rounds is just a way of time. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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What a better auhority than the barrel maker...this is not a waste of time...I always..always suggest that my customers follow break in guidelines. | |||
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I just got Ed Brown's catalog in the mail, and he offers gunsmithing services which includes barrel break-in for only $500 for rifles above .30 caliber. Such a deal! It must be important for that money. John Farner If you haven't, please join the NRA! | |||
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Serious question... If you don't "break it in", what happens the barrel fouls a little more and then it is harder to get it clean but once you get it clean and shoot again are you not "technically" now breaking it in... It would seem that if you shoot and clean your rifle after each outing to the range...then you eventually "break it" in The process maybe a little less efficient but I am trying to figure out how it is really going to be any different. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Well Gale McMillian say no break in needed. That is is a waste of time and ammo. They build some of the most accurate rifles in the world. Gale is a well known bench rest shooter so his opinion is not unfounded. Please read http://www.6mmbr.com/GailMcMbreakin.html It will change your mind about barrel break in www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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And Pat McMillan (sp?) who is the only person to ever fire an officially measured 0.00000" perfect group in benchrest competition, wasn't part of the "break-in" fad either. (Pat's group was enlarged via the continuous re-measurements it got by amazed and sceptical BR officials, until it finally was entered in the books as something on the order of .009". The original story of that so far never-broken record is in one of the old Rifle magazine editions.) Barrelmaker Mike Rock also told me to forget the break-in stuff. He does put a swab of some kind of "bore-prep" in his .30 barrels before he ships them, but when I last talked to him about 6 years ago, he recommended forgetting both "moly" and laborious "break-in". I think our own Mike, who posted above is correct. You're gonna break the barrel in anyway, if you shoot it and then clean it when done. May not all get done in one session, and may not all be done at the range, but it will get broken in. No way to avoid it if you actually use it rather than just leave it in the vault. | |||
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I offer mostly hand lapped barrels so my only recommendation is that (a) you don't get the barrel too hot, and (b) make every shot count. _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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At $500 hundred a pop, I wonder how many "break ins" Ed Brown actually sells. | |||
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Krieger (my barrel maker) says to break in. Breaking-in smooths the rough machining marks that may be present in the throat. They have a procedure on their website, but I have my own regimen. After each of ten shots, I run four wet patches through, run my brush through about 25 strokes, run four wet patches, then four dry patches. It's shoot, clean, shoot, clean, shoot, clean for ten rounds. It takes me about three hours. I don't do it quickly. It's such drudgery, my shootin' buds and I make an afternoon out of it. We usually kill most of a case of beer out there-- makes the time go by faster. Once you've done it, you'll never have to do it again for that gun... | |||
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From reading Gale McMillan's article It comes down to three things. One. Old barrel manufacturing practices may have required a "break in" to account for poor quality control and the lack of hand lapping. Two. New barrels that have poor quality bores that are not hand lapped. and three the Misnomer that it actually does anything other then shorten the life of the barrel. And it's number three that sells it. There are people out their that believe that the shape of the case contributes in a significant way to the accuracy of the rifle. This has never been proven as there are just to many variables involved in reloading and accuracy that it may never be proven either way. But if you start a conversation with someone it will come up and some a dead set that it is true yet with no direct evidence to base it on. Same with barrel break in. They do it because they think it does something and yet with out testing the results of an un-broken in barrel they will never know. www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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To answer your original question as to whether or not practice some break in technique depends somewhat on the quality of the barrel. What if upon initial firing you are seeing a lot of copper fouling in the bore? That is probably due to a "rough" bore or non lapped one if you will. About the only way I would know to correct or help that is to really apply the JB compound vigously and shoot/clean until the copper is greatly lessened. I am not a benchrest shooter, HighPower/Long Range, and as for getting barrels hot, don't give it a second thought for you have no choice and if the bore is rough to start with and coppers badly, it only gets worse with lots of rounds in a short period of time. Std. procedure years ago was to shoot/clean 15 times, then shoot/clean every 5 times for three times or a total of 30rnds plus or minus a few. You should be good to go then and for the first 15 shots, just shoot them down range with no worry about accuracy, save that for the three 5 shot period and then you can sight in and not be so bored. Few shooters I know will go to Perry with a brand new barrel for it needs to be broken in and accuracy known when you get there. Both Douglas and Krieger post break in steps to be taken and I tend to go along with them, but to each his own. | |||
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Just use Lothar Walther barrels. They are polished and ready to go. | |||
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thats what i was thinking also . | |||
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I have a Bartlein barrel and this is what they have on their site ~ The age old question, "Breaking in the New Barrel". Opinions very a lot here, and this is a very subjective topic. For the most part, the only thing you are breaking in, is the throat area of the barrel. The nicer the finish that the Finish Reamer or Throating Reamer leaves, the faster the throat will break in. Shoot one round and clean for the first two rounds individually. Look to see what the barrel is telling you. If I'm getting little to no copper out of it, I sit down and shoot the gun. Say 4 - 5 round groups and then clean. If the barrel cleans easily and shoots well, we consider it done. If the barrel shows some copper or is taking a little longer to clean after the first two, shoot a group of 3 rounds and clean. Then a group of 5 and clean. After you shoot the 3rd group and 5th group, watch how long it takes to clean. Also notice your group sizes. If the group sizes are good and the cleaning is getting easier or is staying the same, then shoot 4 - 5 round groups. If fouling appears to be heavy and taking a while to clean, notice your group sizes. If group sizes are good and not going sour, you don't have a fouling problem. Some barrels will clean easier than others. Some barrels may take a little longer to break in. Remember the throat. Fouling can start all the way from here. We have noticed sometimes that even up to approximately 100 rounds, a barrel can show signs of a lot of copper, but it still shoots really well and then for no apparent reason, you will notice little to no copper and it will clean really easy. This is meant as guide lines only. There is no hard and fast rule for breaking in a barrel. Professional Hunter - Tanzania | |||
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I agree with Phil. Let your barrel tell you. Every shot that goes down the barrel is wearing it out. Butch | |||
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Either a barrel company or a company building rifles needs to take, lets say, 30 identical barrels and then shoots a couple of thousand perfectly timed groups and tabulate the results. Then they need to rebarrel the actions with new barrels and break them in with whatever procedure rocks their boat and shot the same number of groups and compare the results. Even then enough varibles such as brass, weather, etc can affect the outcome. Post the results so we can read them and then I can offer an opinion. Untill then, I clean and shoot. Personally I think the entire barrel break in stuff was created by a bored writer. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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IMHO waste of time and primers ... IN MOST situations .. anyone ever claim how MUCH better it would be, "properly" broke in vs not? Mike, you raise a good point.. each shot is breaking it in .. but "break in procedures" generally mean a short cycle of shoot and clean, repeated, to "break" it in .. cleaning a gun, once in awhile, isn't the procedure i believe we are discussing -- but i could be wrong. Can groups improve over time and can that be accreditted to the barrel breaking in? Sure, why not ... but I don't believe CLEANING the filled in (and now smoother) craters improves groups. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I run a brush with a strip of fine scotchbrite soaked with fp-10.Then dry clean patches till clean.When I shoot them I am sighting them in,if no loads are working I clean it before the next outing. | |||
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http://www.snipercountry.com/A...arrel_BreakIn_II.asp I thought this was interesting? _____________________ Steve Traxson | |||
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that was interesting | |||
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I personally break-in my new barrels and suggest that my costomers do. Let the barrel tell you when it is broken in. It usually takes 5 to 8 shots with a high quality barrel(shoot & clean between shots). A little longer with most factory barrels. I do think it helps improve accuracy and I know it makes cleaning easier later on. If you don't do it you will still be OK as it will happen over time. ....JMHO....Tom SCI lifer NRA Patron DRSS DSC | |||
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Well if your not sure which way to go, This fella here should leave you with little doubt http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRRahHX9Zkg regards S&F | |||
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4th "shot" looks like muzzle first... opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Yep looks like mud left on the muzzle as well. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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The guy that did that video was banned on 24hr Campfire. You would just love him. Butch | |||
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The barrel will tell you. That raises the question --- do you know what the hell you are looking at? I only shoot Kriegers and a few Harts but always Iosso the tube before shooting the first time. Most of the time it takes 1 to 2 shots. Factory tubes are pretty rough so it may take many more. Unless you are getting all of the copper and fouling out between shots when breaking in a tube you are wasting your time. | |||
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