I'm interested in obtaining a small benchtop vertical milling machine for small projects. I'd like to use it for such things as milling out the action inletting on stock blanks. An old gunsmith I knew had one and it looked very handy. Are there numerous older models available vs. the many new ones currently offered, and would you first look at older units vs. the new ones? thank you.

I wouldn't buy a round column

Square only

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
I wouldn't buy a round column

Square only

This^^^^^^^

Back in the day, I needed to get a milling machine so I bought a bench top mill, didn't take long to realize what a mistake I made and sold it.

I have an Excel EC30B made in Taiwan. It is a clone of the RF30. These machines are not production machines. Seem to work fine for small projects, hobby use, light cuts. My machine does not like cuts over .030.

Their biggest limitation is that you lose your alignment if you have to move the head during a project. There are ways to compensate for this. Preplanning the tooling that you will use during a project is a must. I use the longest tool method for project planning. The Lazy Machinist has a you tube video on this. I also have my machine set up for ER32 collets. ER collets give you the most room to change tooling. I have had my machine for around 4 years and so far I have never had to move the head to change tooling.

You can do high quality work on these machines but it will be a slow process compared to using a full size mill like a Bridgeport.

What it boils down to is what you intend to use it for. Figure that out and then buy what suits your needs. Not somebody else's needs.

We had to use a bench top Enco round column mill at Trinidad for roughing the inletting out for our first stock from a blank. This was in '89. Stock came out great. Never used that Enco mill again. Ed Shulin, the stockmaking instructor thought we should learn on something we could afford right out of school. He had one in his shop at home.

Would I buy one for my shop? Probably not, but I'm not your average hobby guy either. If someone found one locally for a good price so they could putter around their hobby shop, it might be worth considering.

My first mill was a Hardinge TM/UM Horizontal with a vertical attachment. Limited travel in XYZ but the spiral milling attachment can cut a helix. Drilling using the knee is no picnic as there is no quill.

Bridgeport/clone is the goto mill in my shop but I've installed a Prototrak 2axis CNC on it and use that feature constantly. Still got the Hardinge, but it gets the boot the minute I get a 4th axis on my Milltronics RH19.

When you're buying big chunks of iron you can get carried away and spend a bunch just on the accessories.

yep - the main reasons why are both rigidity and repeatability - I've used both .. the round columns slip, twist

a couple more recommendations
do NOT buy a 3 in 1 combo machine

get something with an r8 taper - morse 2 or 3 aren't as common

never use a drill chuck to hold an endmill .. not even on wood ..

DROs, even cheap ones, are worth their weight in gold

buy at least 1 size larger than you think you'll need

you vise and work holding is at least as important as the mill itself

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
I wouldn't buy a round column

Square only

This^^^^^^^

I bought a round column years ago, it was what I could afford at the time, and it's OK for light work as stated above. I solved the repeatability issue by epoxying a laser pointer on the head and and marking a verticle line on the opposite wall, about 12 feet away, with a sharpy. If I have to move the head I just put the dot on the line and I'm good to go. And yes, get R-8, a decent vice and a DRO, especially for the Z axis.

Rusnok was a popular machine at one time, as were Atlas and Burke.

Is cost or space the issue?

There are very few bench top millers worth having in my opinion, most are pretty old and obscure.

A small Van Norman or Hardinge would be a better choice in my opinion. The smallest bridgeports, even round rams, are cheap and available, and tooling (R8) is dirt cheap.

If I was going to start a small hobby shop and space was limited, I would probably buy a Moore #3 Jig Borer. They can be found dirt cheap in great condition, tooling is available, albeit a little pricey, everything is exceptional quality, and most have DRO's fitted at some point in their life.

When I started my shop I bought a Cincinatti Toolmaster, a much better machine than your standard bridgeport. Cost me $1000, but the tooling is a short 40 taper quick change. So in the 10+ years I've owned it, I've never seen any for sale.

Course if I could only have one mill, it would be my K&T 2d. Not exactly bench top

I saw a rusnok in a knifemaking book. cute

quote:

Originally posted by TomP:
Rusnok was a popular machine at one time, as were Atlas and Burke.

https://www.harborfreight.com/...g-machine-40939.html

Something like this? Has a crank for up and down.
$1900

I bought the Grizzly GO796, $6000

They have one like the HF G0678 for $3750

Don't forget your x travel .. working on stocks you sometimes want to mill out the barrel channel so you need at least 14" of x travel to do that.

Buy a vintage Rockwell vertical mill, it's not as big as the full size Bridgeport but it's a very good knee mill. You won't regret your decision. Uses R8. Needs 3 phase but you can buy a $100 converter. It's actually the perfect gunsmithing mill.

I bought one of the dovetail column benchtop models that Grizzly sold; it was the G0619 or G0463 I think. 1 HP. Decent x and y travel (6x17, maybe?). It's true that if I wasn't going to have to move and had 3 phase or a 3 phase converter and had more room, I would rather have a Bridgeport. The Grizzly will make pretty heavy cuts, but it will shake in heavy cuts even though I've weighted and leveled the table it's on. There's some deflection that's hard to avoid, even on lighter cuts. But I still really like it. It's super useful compared to a drill press. And it's great for milling out stocks. Takes R8 tooling. I'd buy it again.

I bought a well used Bridgeport Knee mill bout 10 years ago for $700. It has some wear but I don't make alot of high precision cuts as with the lathe so as long as you know your machine you can compensate to some degree. It works for me especially for inletting etc. I'd rather have a used larger mill than a new bench top model.

God Bless, Louis

In have a RF45 (dovetailed column) in the basement. Uses R-8 collets. Have used it to inlet stocks, mill reamer blanks, make scope mount bases, flute barrels, mill octagons, and bore rod eyes on hydraulic cylinders. I would rather have a Bridgeport but no way to get one into the basement. Regards, Bill

Wish I'd kept a Fry bench top mill heavy, dovetailed, power X feed, fairly easy to convert to vertical

Made in small numbers by Harold Fry out of Berkeley CA in tghe 50-60's