The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing Burgess QD ringsGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I suspect that that would result in 50% of MkXs with dovetails being drilled and tapped. Having bought a very nice ZG from the US that was drilled and tapped I don't quite have the confidence I used to! Those Burgess rings are a work of art - should anyone have a set I'd spend $450 if they were lows or mediums. A rifle is only as good as it's weakest parts. | |||
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I had a set of Burgess rings, got them from Maurice Ottmar. A friend wanted them more than I. Rings priced at a third to half of the rifle don't compute to me. For around $75, I much prefer Warne Premiers:  NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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Good god Forest, Don't you know that unless you match the cost of all the components to each other the rifle is not proper. $500 rifle = $300 scope = $50 rings = $20 scope covers = $20 sling sling and a $.70 bullet. $5000 rifle = $3000 scope = $500 rings = $200 scope covers = $200 sling sling and a $7 bullet. I just crack myself up  Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I could only dream that Duane will charge me 2 to 3 times what i paid for the Burgess rings! What a bargain!  | |||
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Good points. For a first class custom, a set of Burgess rings would be the cat's meow. Katie's look nice too. But for a run-of-the-mill factory Brno, Warne Premiers or old-style Talleys or Kimbers work for me. NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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While on the subject of the Burgess Brno rings - anyone interested in swapping a set of the highs(.400") for a set of the lows .325")? Send me a PM if so. Cheers. GG | |||
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Hi GG, Is your email still the same buddy? I sent you a couple of pics of my M21 the other day. Nathan. | |||
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Hi Nathan Yeah mate still the same - I got it but haven't had a chance to reply yet. Your M21's lookin good tho. Talk soon. GG | |||
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No worries mate, just checking. I know the dramas you had with internet providers up there. | |||
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Send me a Email if you are interested and how much you want] to pay? They are in white /Johan | |||
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Just color me curious. Please, can anyone show me or tell me the specific differences between the Burgess, early Kimber and Billingsley/Brownell/G&H rings? I'd really like it if you could show photos or else be very specific, words like 'better' and 'higher quality' are kinda like 'cute' and 'attractive', the words My Bride used to describe one of her girl friends. I wuz left wondering if she's 8 or 88, 4'6" or 6'4", 90 lbs or 290 lbs, fair or fairly dark, hair up to her ears or down to her waist; you can see the sort of description I'm seeking. Are there any mechanical or functional differences that make the Burgess rings worth 5 times more? Specific aesthetics, or non-specific charisma? Or merely a high price tag for braggin' rights? Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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I would like to find a set of the old G&H top rings in 7/8" size. They also used to make a one piece topmount but I am looking for the two piece separated rings. | |||
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J.D., You can read Burgess' own explanation of his ring design in this thread. MRC PH thread | |||
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Thanks, David. I read the entire thread and it was very interesting, especially the discussion about recoil shoulders. From what I could gather from the description, it appears that the major difference between the Burgess rings and the early Kimbers is the pitch of the lever clamp screw threads. Apparently the Burgess thread pitch is quite coarse, allowing enough opening movement for the ring to be tipped off and on from the side rather than slid on from the rear. This is a major difference all right but I'm not sure if it's worth 3 times the price. The basic design appears otherwise identical with the exception of the number of clamp screws at the top ring junction and the integral recoil shoulders. I can see how the 2 top screws might be necessary for some few scopes and some few untutored scope installers, but the integral recoil shoulders are easy to add to the Kimbers if wanted. Of course the later Warne Premiers already have the integral recoil shoulder and the 2 screws, but their bodies and clamp screw wings are far too large and sharp-edged and their overall appearance is not nearly as sleek and dainty as the earlier types. IOW they're mechanically great but also IMO very ugly, so I'll keep using the early much-more-attractive Kimbers. I'd like to have the side-tip-off capability but I'm not sure it's worth 3 times the price, for me anyway. Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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JD, these are original Kimbers bought back in the 80's, I also have a st Jim Wisner built that are just as nice and interchangeable   Jim fur, feathers, & meat in the freezer  "Pass it on to your kids" | |||
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Abob,do those early Kimbers have a female dovetail that will slidd onto a Lyman/Fecker/Unertl target scope dovetail block? | |||
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and here's a Brownell set i sold a few years ago, not sure when they were made.  | |||
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Here's a nice Mauser with Kimbers (not mine): CustomFN NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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Sorry, I don't know, I bought the bases for my MK Xs & WIN M70 Jim Wisner might know since he reproduced them | |||
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The answer is yes, an unqualified yes. I just checked and my early Kimber rings will tighten up on the Unertl bases just fine, however there's no recoil shoulder unless you add one. The later Warne Premier rings will also fit and have an integral recoil shoulder that requires a corresponding slot in each base. The Talley rings take a wider dovetail and won't fit the Unertl/Lyman bases. Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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Is that correct? I thought that was one of the knocks against the Talleys was that they use a narrower dovetail than Kimber/Brownell. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Jason, the early Kimber and later Warne Premier rings are the same dovetail dimension as the common 22RF tipoff dovetail, in fact I use 22RF tipoff rings on some of my ribs that were made for the Kimbers. Sorry, I don't have any Talley rings for comparison but I do know that the Talley peep sight has a slightly wider dovetail than the Kimbers. I bought a Talley peep years ago to live under the butt trap of my 280 Mauser; I could tighten it enough to clamp onto the Kimber dovetail OK but it was obvious that it was intended for a slightly larger base. I don't know about any criticism of the Kimber system except for the recoil shoulder issue, and I have a few doubts about that. I personally have never had any recoil-caused problems with the Kimbers but have so far used only medium-weight scopes mounted as low as possible. I've heard stories about the heavy 30mm scopes in high rings actually breaking the usual 6-48 base screws under recoil but this also happens with plenty of other mounts as well so it didn't seem very significant. I've found that converting to 8-40 base screws and installing unobtrusive recoil shoulder pins in the dovetail grooves relieves my mind. Plus, I've been known to tighten things pretty darn tight, sometimes... Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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Tom's rings are well nigh perfect. The physics, the execution and artistic look are all in balance. Duane, if you ever have some "down time" on those aerospace quality CNC machines, maybe you could make something along this style. I have had rifles built because someone gave me a cartridge that looked good or a barrel, even a set of sights. A pair of those rings would be reason enough to build a rifle around them. $500.00 USD would be a very fair price. I love Smithson's rings, but these Burgess rings are just made to live on Mausers.  | |||
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Well...appreciate your input...I'll check with Mr Ragar to see what HIS plans are... we have given it some thought | |||
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Duane, some lows would be much welcomed. | |||
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Speaking of Burgess products..Can anyone PM me with Mrs. Burgess' address? | |||
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If not the Burgess, maybe you could get with Jim Wisner and figure out a way to reproduce the Kimbers, I don't think Ed is making them | |||
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Duane, You will want to speak with Tom's son Chris. I'll PM you with the contact information tomorrow. He is a good person. LD Edited for misspelling. | |||
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Great thread. But...does not anybody have a pic of a split ring? Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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Hi Bent Took a while but yes, here is a photo of a Burgess ring split. As usual - sorry about the crap photo quality. Cheers. GG  | |||
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Can any one enlighten me if the Burgress rings,and the rings made by Darrell fit on to the same dove tails as the current talley rings Daniel | |||
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