on my early custom rifles by Jeffery, Hoffman, Springfield and Griffin and Howe the craftsmaan was able to turn the standard military trigger to a properly functioning single stage trigger that broke sweetly at three pounds. No creep or drag at all.the simplest 98 triggers ever. That same treatment was done for the Belgium FN sporters.
is there anyone doing such work now>??????

Leonard,
181 gunshop in Downs Kansas can do a fine job at it. I had him do it to a large ring mauser 10 years ago and did a great job. He is not teribly famous and reasonable and as good as it gets with medal work IMHO. Bill Myer is his name.
Aaron

Anyone with some skill with a drill press and a tap and die set should be able to handle it.
But a Timney is easier, cheaper, more reliable, and safer in terms of liability even though it to can set to release early.

I don't want to speak for anyone on the board but I'm sure Kobe, Westpac, Duane, Jeff, Have done and can do it. it's just a matter of do they want to or have the time.
I've done a few but to tell you the truth I'd rather install a Timney or some other after market trigger.

Jim Carmichael once wrote that he received a custom Mauser from a friend. The first thing he did was to remove the aftermarket trigger and replace it with a reworked military trigger.

His reason for the swap was that he had an aftermarket trigger fail in the past, and he believed the reworked military trigger was safer.

The trigger second from top may interest you.

http://www.voere.com/html/abzug.html

The two finest triggers offered to the sporting trade were the 98 Mauser and the Pre-64 model 70 for ease of adjustment and pure reliability. The best of the sporting mauser triggers came on the FN rifles. These triggers rival the ones that are on my Hoffman and my Griffin's. These are perfect! and nothing can rival the reliability.

The problem is slop. Slop in the fit of the military bolt sleeve against the top of the rear tang, leading to erratic positioning of the sear surfaces. Unless this slop is removed, any single-stage conversion WILL be unsafe or else the pull WILL be too hard. The aftermarket triggers solve this problem by transferring the actual sear operation to the new trigger internals, leaving the original sear in more-than-adequate engagement.

The answer is to install protruding pins in the bottom of the bolt sleeve, to keep it firmly jammed against the top of the tang so as to ensure its return (and adherence) to the same position in the rifle every time the bolt is cycled. If this isn't done then the bolt sleeve and thus the sear surfaces will wander around somewhat, making the sear engagement vary quite a bit from shot to shot.

This bolt sleeve pin addition was SOP with most quality prewar sporters although most of them also retained the 2-stage pull for safety even after the pins were added.

I, personally, would NEVER perform the single-stage conversion for ANY reason. I consider it completely unnecessary but more importantly I also consider it VERY UNSAFE for any light trigger pull less than at least 3-4 lbs. I can get a completely safe and utterly repeatable 2-lb pull with the 2-stage military sears and a pinned bolt sleeve so why take the chance? If I can't live without a single-stage pull then I'll use a Timney or Canjar or Blackburn or similar.
Regards, Joe

Canjar? Where can I buy one????

I have Canjars on mine but they are no longer in business .Perhaps yo could find one on ebay.

J.D.STEELE, what would it cost for your conversion set to three lbs+- pull on a custom Mauser sporter? How long would it take?

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
The problem is slop. Slop in the fit of the military bolt sleeve against the top of the rear tang, leading to erratic positioning of the sear surfaces. Unless this slop is removed, any single-stage conversion WILL be unsafe or else the pull WILL be too hard. The answer is to install protruding pins in the bottom of the bolt sleeve, to keep it firmly jammed against the top of the tang so as to ensure its return (and adherence) to the same position in the rifle every time the bolt is cycled. If this isn't done then the bolt sleeve and thus the sear surfaces will wander around somewhat, making the sear engagement vary quite a bit from shot to shot.

This bolt sleeve pin addition was SOP with most quality prewar sporters although most of them also retained the 2-stage pull for safety even after the pins were added.

Regards, Joe

Could you add a bit more detail as to exact position at this pin you speak of and the type of steel used.

I did a trial lifting of the trigger extension with liquid steel about 25years ago, have fired over 1000 rounds with it and it still lets go at a measured 3 lb.


Von Gruff

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
J.D.STEELE, what would it cost for your conversion set to three lbs+- pull on a custom Mauser sporter? How long would it take?

I'm not accepting any work right now but I can tell you it would take a good smith, experienced in this work, maybe 2-3 hrs at most; 1 hr to fit the pins and 1-2 hrs to stone the sears and trigger cams. I'll take a pic later to show the actual pin installation on a prewar 1903 Springfield sporter. I suppose a fast worker could shave some time offa that time SWAG, but not much.

Von Gruff, it's not the 3 lbs that causes the problem, it's obtaining it with absolutely NO CREEP under all temperature and lubrication conditions. It's been my experience that when all the creep is removed from a military 2-stage trigger then it beoomes subject to occasional ADs, even after all the lost motion is removed from the bolt sleeve. Just my experience FWIW. As always YMMV.
Regards, Joe

i have an original Mauser trigger that is modified in the following way; where you have added a bit of steel so that the trigger can not return to a resting position, therefore taking up the first stage. this modification requires the drilling and tapping of a hole and using a long allen screw. advance the allen screw to take up the slack from the first stage. trigger breaks at about 3.5 lbs, required no other work and moved the trigger towards the rear of the trigger guard bow where it should be. dont know if this makes sense to
you or not??

That is the basic way to modify a two stage trigger especially the 98. Either drill and tap the trigger or the sear, either way a set screw is used to take up the first stage. another set crew can be used to take up over travel as well.

I agree with Joe. If not properly setup, with adequate sear engagement an AD is only a matter of time. HAd this same trouble on my 91 mauser never could get a decent pull weight, little creep and little over travel. at one point i had the text book hair trigger that would release if you looked at it wrong. The stock trigger is not designed the same as a 98 so I could not modify it the way a 98 is with out a lot of welding. So I put everything back to stock and searched for a solution only to hit gold with a NOS Timney. (THANK YOU Theback40) Now it has a nice 3.5 pound pull with little take up and near zero over travel. (the way I like it.) and it's safe and reliable. Add a wing safety and and all is well.

Here's a pic of the pinned 1903 bolt sleeve alongside an issue one. You can see that the pin heads have been smoothed and polished so as to not cause any wear that might alter the snugness when the bolt is locked.

Almost all of the quality prewar Springfield sporters I've examined have had some sort of similar arrangement, to remove the slop from the trigger/sear relationship. Those fitted with cocking-piece peeps had also been altered to remove all side-to-side movement of the cocking piece. I still do this bolt sleeve alteration on all the rifles I build with the 2-stage military pull.
Regards, Joe

A very interesting thread. I have been wanting to try this. I am very much a novice at this. Watching the cocking pc move as the first stage is taken up made me wonder about altering. Double stage is okay - I just want a somewhat better pull. I appreciate JDS's explanation and pics along with others input. Any other info would be great as well.

The subject is pretty well covered...just like to add that I personally have not had call to modify a military trigger in many years until recently.

This recent job calls for leaving the two stage and break at 4 lbs. In my opinion this could be the safest trigger imagineable.

A military conversion to single stage really doesn't make sense..see JD Steele's comments

The problem for me is two fold. I want the safest and clean breaking trigger I can get but also one that sets back into the trigger guard bow the way a Blackburn trigger sets in his bottom metal. I have several customs set up this way and would like to duplicate them. I am setteling for two stage triggers now. What can be done to improve a standard 98 military trigger befitting a fine custom rifle???? $lbs pull is fine for me. One of the reasons most of my customs are on Winchester actions is the trigger. I have had two failures of mechanical triggers in rifles on safari. Both Mausers one T and one B. On my 500 Jeffery I want to replace the Blackburn with a modified 98!

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:
This recent job calls for leaving the two stage and break at 4 lbs. In my opinion this could be the safest trigger imagineable.

AND, fully capable of less-than-MOA accuracy too!
Regards, Joe

It's not the weight of pull on a trigger that cause inaccuracy it's how clean it breaks.

I've pulled some very clean breaking 4.5# triggers and they will fool you to believe it is actually lighter.

I've always felt either just tune it and stone it or replace it. but don't fool with it.

that's the one reason I like Timney relocates the sear engagement adjustment to the internals on the trigger keeping the striker fully supported and safe

I've seen many FNs with the M70-style trigger, apparently it was standard on some commercial contract models. My old TSJC stockmaking instructor, Ed Shulin, showed us how to do that particular alteration on a blind-magazine Mauser 25-06 he built in 1966. It's not rocket science, just a slightly-tricky steel fabrication job. I've also seen a 1914/17 magnumized Enfield with this M70 alteration, pic is floating around on the net, looks like a REALLY professional and beautiful conversion.

There are fifty ways....
Regards, Joe

Well there you go Joe
For a non Timney trigger the M70 would be my first choice. To bade USRA doesn't see it that way.

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
I've seen many FNs with the M70-style trigger, apparently it was standard on some commercial contract models. My old TSJC stockmaking instructor, Ed Shulin, showed us how to do that particular alteration on a blind-magazine Mauser 25-06 he built in 1966. It's not rocket science, just a slightly-tricky steel fabrication job. I've also seen a 1914/17 magnumized Enfield with this M70 alteration, pic is floating around on the net, looks like a REALLY professional and beautiful conversion.

There are fifty ways....
Regards, Joe

If anyone wants one of these I am pretty sure I have at least one around here. I would sell at a reasonable price or trade for a Timmney or similar trigger. Just PM me.

I have an FN with the trigger pinned into the floorplate/triggerguard pice. I hate that thing with a passion but it does work.
I'm as happy as you are, kcstott that trigger worked for you!