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I've been watching the Forged In Fire series on the History Channel. I started to think about a quarter rib and sights in Damascus steel, I think that might add a little class to the structure. Now I've made several quarter ribs in 12L14 which rust blues very nicely. What finish do think would bring out the layers in the steel? Rust bluing is a acid etch, which might hide the layers, same with hot blue process. Anyone ever try the French Grey process? | ||
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One of Us |
The knife guys would know, I think they used ferric chloride | |||
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one of us |
Yes, ferric chloride is a common etchant but it depends on the steels and the results you want , subtle or intense contrast. The variables of the etching , concentration, temperature , time all play a part. Play with a sample till you get results you like . Most etchants are acid | |||
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One of Us |
Maybe it's just me. But when you start mixing finishes on gun steel or even getting polish lines running different directions, things tend to get a little weird looking. Even having matte finish sights or rings and bases on a polished, finished gun seems to jump right out and scream: "My mom dressed me with miss-matched socks." Or maybe it's just me. When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
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were traditional damascus barels "browned"? "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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I think it is a neat idea. Pattern welded steel can be just as subtle or flashy as you desire. Warm vinegar does a light etch that might work like you want. An all day soak in super strong coffee will turn it a very nice black. More durable than you would think. PM me if you would like a detailed process. Mike | |||
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Weak soln of ferric chloride,,5% or even less. Use at room temp. Rust brown the piece. LEave it brown if you want a brown/white pattern. Boil to turn (rust) blue if you want black/white damascus pattern. Then dunk the piece in the etch,,in and back out,,don't let it soak. Then under cold running water lightly but completely card with steel wool. This'll remove the color (brown or the black/blue) from the steel portion of the damascus and leave most of it still on the softer iron part. Back to the beginning and recoat w/rusting soln again and go for cycle #2. You can often rust (and boil) the part 3 times or so before etching to build up a bit more color, just takes some experimentation. It's a slower overall process than rust bluing alone as you do remove part of the color you just put on each time,,3 steps forward and 2 steps back kind of thing. The pattern will emerge after a few cycles and build in intensity. The surface & pattern will remain smooth with this method and not get that heavy deep techtured look to it. You can get that by a longer initial etch bath if you want it. (If you use this etch when doing bbls, plug the bores or coat them to protect from etching. I use a heavy coating of shellac, it holds up even in the boiling water tank but I recoat them 1/2 way thru the entire process just to be sure) | |||
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Moderator |
you could order a "knife blank" off ebay for a couple bucks and try it for yourself ... alloys included in the twist will vary opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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new member |
I've found Damascus steel available from several places on the internet and I'm going to order several and play with them. Whatever I do I'm not going to hide the different layers of steel. Now this isn't going to harden as if it were a knife, so this might allow me to use different steel and perhaps iron. I think I'm going to need a custom billet to size. I quarter rib might take a different size blank than a knife blank. Now I just retired, and if this works out, I might buy the tools necessary to forge them myself once I find the right combination of alloys. I have a new shop being built so maybe I might make some adjustments to the floor plain. | |||
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one of us |
I would hesitate buying anything from ebay as there's too much chance of problems. There are good forums for serious info I'm on Knifeforums. One of the best mix for knives is 1080/15n20 where the nickel in 15n20 etches lighter .And it makes a good knife . Speerchucker should remember in the 'old days' the shotgun barrels made with Damascus. Recently you could get a 1911 pistol made with Damascus ! | |||
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Oh yeah, I've owned several high grade guns with damascus steel barrels. It was an economical way to make a tube back in the day. If they survived the proof firing, they were fine for black powder. Some were even adequate for light smokeless loads and are still being shot with them to this day. My only concern is the cosmetics. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That would explain my chain of ex-wives. LOL I don't think I would worry about using cheap, production grade, ebay damascus knife material for quarter ribs. While that tough material will make milling a bit more cumbersome. It should hold the pressure well enough. LOL When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
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new member |
Of course it would be easier to make a rib using a more uniform material, but that not the point, making a rib that has more style. I just retired from making tools at Aerojet Rocketdyne, using the some of the hardest materials on earth. Anything that Damascus steel present is nothing. | |||
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Mark. It has all ready been done with a 1/4 rib. Go back thru the back issues of the Gunmaker, and you will find a rifle shown with one. May be able to do a search in the ACCG archives regarding the pic of the rifle. JW | |||
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Moderator |
i didn't mean for making q'ribs .. i meant for playing with rust bluing ... lots of material to hacksaw into coupons and try various methods, without alot of money--- opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Congratulations on your retirement Mark!! Now that you have time on your hands (ha ha), call Eric at the ACGG HQ and get a Gunmaker CD with 33 years of Gunmakers all in a word search format. Dennis Earl Smith Professional Member ACGG Benefactor Life NRA Life NAHC | |||
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Thanks Dennis, retirement has been a long time in coming. I will call Eric for a GUNMAKER CD. For those interested in the Rifle making trade The Gunmaker has published information and "How DO IT" type articles. All of my tooling, machines are in storage waiting for a new shop to be built, so it will take a few months to get to my GUNMAKERS. Here's what I have planned for retirement, first I started teaching, during the summer NRA program at Trinidad State. The next thing is book TWO for Custom Gunmaking, and third is building the rifles I want to build. I've got 60 plus Mauser 1909, Winchester Pre 64 and Ruger Number One actions. I'm going to teach my son-on-law the trade. Trust me, he will do it for fun of it. I just bought a friends shop and I will add his machines to the new shop. | |||
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Great to see you on AR Mark. I used to keep a close eye on your website & how to's years ago when I was getting started, they were a great help. Never did get your book though... Bruce Russel did a QR in Damascus, it's written up in SDH Custom Rifles in B&W. Cheers Metal. | |||
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Hey Metal, thanks for reminding me as to which Gunmaker had the damascus rib. I knew I had seen one Guild show maybe 10 years ago. I remember talking to Bruce about his rib, and I know he had problems with the welds staying together. But after watching Forged In Steel, I'm learning more about the process. Making the rear scope base, the rib and front sight in Damascus would be interesting. And yes metal, I finished the first book and am about to start on the second. The first book sold so well, and I was sending them everywhere in the world. Last year I decided to do an 8th printing. I knew that my new student at Trinidad would want a copy. I've heard from about 20 customers who wanted another copy, it seems that they loaned out there first copy and couldn't get back. | |||
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Good advice. Boric Acid is also a very good fine etchant. You can get it at your local home center in the pesticide section. Usually sold as "Roach Powder" or something similar. 99% Boric Acid. Make a 7-10% by weight solution with hot water and apply to hot metal. Rubbing the blued/browned metal with a hardwood dowel will also rub color off the steel bands and leave color on the iron ones. www.rustblue.com
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I've gotten several calls this morning about the book. On the website Hobby-Machinist, on the gunsmithing page has done a nice piece on the book. It's a combination of those who want to purchase the book and those who have it. | |||
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Let me know when the second book is ready...really enjoyed the first one. Can P.M. me here, Thanks Mark and congrads on retirement. Just a few more years for me! _____________________ Steve Traxson | |||
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I did a muzzle brake for my dad's Springfield XD 460 Rowland conversion out of damascus. I got the steel blank from Jantz Knife supply. They had bolster blanks the were just big enough for a brake. We etched it in ferric chloride, then rust blued it. Turned out great with just enough contrast between the 1095 and 15N20. The 1095 turned a nice black and the 15N20 came out more grey with a thinner oxide coat. Wish I had a picture of it. It would make really neat scope rings, bolt shrouds. Jeremy | |||
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Well Bailey Bradshaw recommended a damascus maker to me. I bought the blanks to make scope bases. David Christman machined them and said never again. They were rust blued and on one of my hunting rifles. Looks nice, but probably not worth the trouble. | |||
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